Everything Derozan

[Superjudge]

lol. that explains a lot.

Well your post illustrates a lot.

[JWash]

Most of us agree Casey is one of the worst coaches in the league, no?

Casey has been DeMar's coach for basically his whole career. Running this iso-ball crap, telling DeRozan and company that those tough shots are the ones they "usually make" and they should "keep taking them" and "pounding the rock".

With this kind of idiocy at the head, how can you expect the focal point of the offense to be an efficient player? Even Lowry was below-average in efficiency this season.

Suggesting that a change to the coaching and offensive system would not significantly affect DeRozan's ability to perform is extremely naive. Positions like that are why the DeRozan debate is always filled with such vitriol.

You have the people who think DeRozan is a superstar and then the people who are equally as foolish saying he wouldn't be successful anywhere.

Couple reasons DeRozan's FG% was higher his 2nd year (and 1st although he wasn't a feature player that year).

- Team played a faster paced offense (11th in the league)
- Wasn't the first option on offense
- As a result of the faster pace offense more baskets came in transition
- More transition baskets = less mid-range, shot < 50% of his shots from mid-range (10-23ft) compared to nearly 60% now
- 59% of his baskets were assisted compared to 45% now

I was getting killed for these posts in the offseason. As you can see the argument was that a system change and better coaching would lead to better shots, which would lead to a better player.

However DD was simply able to just make these changes himself which is surprising to me. But I always expected it to happen just not him purely doing it by himself (although some changes such as more pick & rolls vs pin-downs have helped in that regard).

I'm looking at pages in the late 300s, early 400s (off-season - as in after we got knocked out - posts) and nobody is saying "oh if DD did this he could be better" people are saying he isn't worth much and needs to go and suggesting all different types of trades.

I think people really need to stop claiming they were correct when they were basically just blasting the guy.

[mcHAPPY]

nice stat check my friend, but thats literally, nothing to me.

I suggest people watch games, and enjoy them. keep it simple. you'll start enjoying seeing little progressions every year. start understanding how a small change, that comes with years of effort can sometimes create those statistical changes you're pointing out.

I guess, I'm just a bit confused because....like what did you actually think was happening all that time? Are you surprised?

Why do people just admit that the reality is that they are, in the end, fans, and fans are impatient, so we bitch.

difference on this board..... there are guys that are impatient and bitch, but clearly state that they know a player will improve, or at least believe they have it in them.

As for derozan. Nothing he is doing should surprise anyone, he's been on this course for a long time and has never wavered. It didn't happen over night, and some silly shot stat isn't the magic pill, its just a result of a lot of hard work starting to come together. Part of that hard work is upstairs.

Great post.

Thing is, the progression DD is on and has been on, is very much in the 3rd standard deviation of career trajectory.

He is very unique and his career has been interesting (and frustrating!) to watch.

[Chr1s1anL]

Man, I wish I had the time to just pull up some the quotes from this thread over this pass summer. From some of you guys. Pure gold!

[Axel]

Its actually funny how worked up you guys are about this lol.

I don't think you're actually seeing people being worked up over Casey's comments. If anything, people may be frustrated that other basement dwelling internet users, who tend to post too much about other posters, are trying to use Casey's comments as an indictment on any poster who chose to criticize Casey and Demar for legitimate concerns. Afterall, you chose to bold that section of the article.

In general, it just seems another attempt by Casey to go out of his way to cut down anyone who doesn't believe in him, by attacking their credibility as 'basketball minds', therefore no right to criticize him. Much the same as when he wore his Championship ring after suffering the one of the most embarrassing defeats in playoff history to the final press conference. He was attempting to immediately discredit anyone in the room who may have tried to question him, because he had a ring (yet never really wore it) and criticizers did not. I find it hard to respect a man who repeatedly chooses to attack the person instead of the points raised. Since that is the coach, I find it very disappointing that he chose to generalize everything as "instant gratification" crowd instead of actually praising Demar for what really happened, a fundamental change in his approach on the court.

I think its a little disingenuous to say that the criticisms of DeRozan were simple suggestions that he needed to change his game.

We questioned his intelligence, called him selfish, mocked his worked ethic and determination (how many times was the # proveem hashtag thrown up in this thread to make fun of him?), stated definitively we can't win with him, and repeated over and over again that this type of improvement from him was basically impossible. I'm sure I could scan the posts and find many calling him a cancer to the team, etc.

Most of those things were very directly linked to his need to change his game.

He didn't seem to demonstrate any awareness of getting better shots - thus his bball IQ would be fair to question if he honestly believed that contested shots were better for him to take. Since those were the comments he made, seems legit.

His shot selection and comments did demonstrate a selfish approach to basketball. Which makes sense if he was emulating his idol, who is selfish, but was talented enough to be a winner while playing selfish basketball. Is there not a good reason you can find a million memes about Kobe not passing?

His work ethic was constantly used as "evidence" against his detractors, yet the improvements did not appear on the court, as the same poor decisions and style continued. So if it gets presented as evidence, is it not fair to critique?

It's like people want to be able to present an argument that cannot be argued, then gets upset when it gets argued against. Not how humanity works either.

As for the bold, we still aren't there yet. We have zero evidence that Demar can fulfill this role and lead us to a championship calibre team. Since that was the stated goal when TW and Masai came on board, that should still be the measuring stick used.

[JWash]

I don't think you're actually seeing people being worked up over Casey's comments. If anything, people may be frustrating that other basement dwelling internet users, who tend to post too much about other posters, are trying to use Casey's comments as an indictment on any poster who chose to criticize Casey and Demar for legitimate concerns. Afterall, you chose to bold that section of the article.

In general, it just seems another attempt by Casey to go out of his way to cut down anyone who doesn't believe in him, by attacking their credibility as 'basketball minds', therefore no right to criticize him. Much the same as when he wore his Championship ring after suffering the one of the most embarrassing defeats in playoff history to the final press conference. He was attempting to immediately discredit anyone in the room who may have tried to question him, because he had a ring (yet never really wore it) and criticizers did not. I find it hard to respect a man who repeatedly chooses to attack the person instead of the points raised. Since that is the coach, I find it very disappointing that he chose to generalize everything as "instant gratification" crowd instead of actually praising Demar for what really happened, a fundamental change in his approach on the court.

Lol but isn't this exactly what we do to Casey on this forum? (Myself included). The guy gets absolutely lit up on here. Gotta be able to take what you dish out.

[Chr1s1anL]

Lol but isn't this exactly what we do to Casey on this forum? (Myself included). The guy gets absolutely lit up on here. Gotta be able to take what you dish out.

+1

[Superjudge]

Great post.

Thing is, the progression DD is on and has been on, is very much in the 3rd standard deviation of career trajectory.

He is very unique and his career has been interesting (and frustrating!) to watch.

I have to be honest, although my sense always told me he was right on track..... I'm before anything, a Raps fan, and therefore deep down, I am always waiting for the bottom to fall out.


hahahaha

It would be so nice to see this kid keep moving in the direction he is. so nice.

My other pet project to watch is clearly the guy I affectionately refer to as "The Stiff". Although he isn't getting faster...and I have resigned myself to believing he just won't. He does seem to be getting, slowly....and I mean slothlike slowly, better.

How many years before he can pull the trigger on that little 15 foot elbow shot.

[Snooch]

nice stat check my friend, but thats literally, nothing to me.

I suggest people watch games, and enjoy them. keep it simple. you'll start enjoying seeing little progressions every year. start understanding how a small change, that comes with years of effort can sometimes create those statistical changes you're pointing out.

I guess, I'm just a bit confused because....like what did you actually think was happening all that time? Are you surprised?

Why do people just admit that the reality is that they are, in the end, fans, and fans are impatient, so we bitch.

difference on this board..... there are guys that are impatient and bitch, but clearly state that they know a player will improve, or at least believe they have it in them.

As for derozan. Nothing he is doing should surprise anyone, he's been on this course for a long time and has never wavered. It didn't happen over night, and some silly shot stat isn't the magic pill, its just a result of a lot of hard work starting to come together. Part of that hard work is upstairs.

not many players ever have made such a concerted effort to change their play from 6th to 7th season. did he improve dramatically, well he certainly isnt as dumb on the court, everything has really been marginal imo and could still average out as the same at seasons end. Also credit continues to directed towards Casey and his offense for putting demar into the position.

And for now it is holding up, he is maintaining this level of creating something that has bumped him up into a tier 2 level of performance with tier 3 level skills....hopefully it can continue before the bottom drops out of it.

But none of that changes that for continued success that maintains throughout the playoffs and doesn't completely destroy a players health/body before they roll around, that his style of play is not good for long term success. His style of play out of your shooting guard position is indeed archaic in relation to the current style of NBA game, and its use is inefficient in the sense that it is predicated out starting from the outside, drible driving to the inside, and kicking the ball back out....and that it is simpler to run(and with a larger margin of error) to run a straight inside out offense.

[mcHAPPY]

Once you filter some really good posts here from all sides.

[Barolt]

nice stat check my friend, but thats literally, nothing to me.

I suggest people watch games, and enjoy them. keep it simple. you'll start enjoying seeing little progressions every year. start understanding how a small change, that comes with years of effort can sometimes create those statistical changes you're pointing out.

I guess, I'm just a bit confused because....like what did you actually think was happening all that time? Are you surprised?

Why do people just admit that the reality is that they are, in the end, fans, and fans are impatient, so we bitch.

difference on this board..... there are guys that are impatient and bitch, but clearly state that they know a player will improve, or at least believe they have it in them.

As for derozan. Nothing he is doing should surprise anyone, he's been on this course for a long time and has never wavered. It didn't happen over night, and some silly shot stat isn't the magic pill, its just a result of a lot of hard work starting to come together. Part of that hard work is upstairs.

The eye test lies. It has biases based on players you like and players you don't. It remembers flashy plays, and ignores simple ones.

Stats don't have those biases. They take every play into account, whether it's a flashy dunk, or simple screen. Eye test tells us that DeMar is good driving to the hoop, and the stats back that up. What the eye test doesn't tell us, however, is that JV generates more PPP as the roll man than DeMar generates as the ball man, so if JV is open it should be a better pass almost every time.

[JWash]

not many players ever have made such a concerted effort to change their play from 6th to 7th season. did he improve dramatically, well he certainly isnt as dumb on the court, everything has really been marginal imo and could still average out as the same at seasons end. Also credit continues to directed towards Casey and his offense for putting demar into the position.

And for now it is holding up, he is maintaining this level of creating something that has bumped him up into a tier 2 level of performance with tier 3 level skills....hopefully it can continue before the bottom drops out of it.

But none of that changes that for continued success that maintains throughout the playoffs and doesn't completely destroy a players health/body before they roll around, that his style of play is not good for long term success. His style of play out of your shooting guard position is indeed archaic in relation to the current style of NBA game, and its use is inefficient in the sense that it is predicated out starting from the outside, drible driving to the inside, and kicking the ball back out....and that it is simpler to run(and with a larger margin of error) to run a straight inside out offense.

Every style is "archaic" until someone wins with it.

It wasn't but 3-5 years ago that everyone was saying "jump-shooting teams can't win" and the Warriors went out and did exactly that.

[Axel]

Lol but isn't this exactly what we do to Casey on this forum? (Myself included). The guy gets absolutely lit up on here. Gotta be able to take what you dish out.

There is a slight difference don't ya think?

Plus we are largely attack his decisions and comments, not his resume, as he seems to be doing here.

[Superjudge]

In general, it just seems another attempt by Casey to go out of his way to cut down anyone who doesn't believe in him, by attacking their credibility as 'basketball minds', therefore no right to criticize him.

Hahahhahahaaaaa.

Are you serious. THAT is EXACTLY what he is doing, and he SHOULD.

hahahahahaaaa

It is tickling me with glee that you guys are all salty about this.... but even more so, that I didn't have to be the one to put ya back in your place for once, this time it comes right from the source, and guess what, he is 100% bang on.

[Snooch]

I was getting killed for these posts in the offseason. As you can see the argument was that a system change and better coaching would lead to better shots, which would lead to a better player.

However DD was simply able to just make these changes himself which is surprising to me. But I always expected it to happen just not him purely doing it by himself (although some changes such as more pick & rolls vs pin-downs have helped in that regard).

I'm looking at pages in the late 300s, early 400s (off-season - as in after we got knocked out - posts) and nobody is saying "oh if DD did this he could be better" people are saying he isn't worth much and needs to go and suggesting all different types of trades.

I think people really need to stop claiming they were correct when they were basically just blasting the guy.

A coaching change would cripple demars production if that change brought about a new offensive system.