Everything Derozan

[DanH]

I have faith in Masai's abilities to bargain DD down from $107M (assuming he's back). I have no hard justification for this other than my belief that Masai is a really good negotiator, and can convince guys to come back for less than they are worth in the open market.

As for the 5 year option.. it doesn't really work for everyone. Look at Millsap last summer as an example. He was offered 4 years (and $80M) from Orlando, but went back to Atlanta for 3 years (and $60M). At that point he was a two time all-star and is 4 years older than DD - so one would assume that he'd want a longer term deal. But settled for a smaller term.

Perhaps DD (or Masai) would prefer 3 years and not 4 or 5.. and he comes back for that.

Every summer is interesting but I've been looking forward to the 2016 summer for a few years now.. can't wait. Actually I'm more excited for it than the playoffs.

To be fair, he went back to a 60 win team instead of going to a 30 win one. Not sure it was the years. I'm sure Orlando would gladly have offered 3 years if that was what he wanted.

Oh, and he was signing a deal that would take him into the cap boom. Short term made sense. DD is signing a deal during the cap boom - not much in way of bigger deal to be had a few years down the road.

[planetmars]

To be fair, he went back to a 60 win team instead of going to a 30 win one. Not sure it was the years. I'm sure Orlando would gladly have offered 3 years if that was what he wanted.

Oh, and he was signing a deal that would take him into the cap boom. Short term made sense. DD is signing a deal during the cap boom - not much in way of bigger deal to be had a few years down the road.

I agree about the winning thing, but that same logic could apply to DD. Raptors may not be a 60win team.. but teams that will be offering him that max are most likely going to be lottery teams like Orlando was.

As for signing a short deal to get into the cap boom.. well 3 years (with no options) is just missing it, as the cap will come down a bit in 2018. Why not sign a 2 year deal or at least a 1+1 deal so he can be a UFA in 2016 or 2017.

Either way Millsap will be 33 when he's a UFA. Would be tough to see him get more than $20M a year at that age even with a cap boom.

[DanH]

There will be a lot of teams with cap space. I wouldn't bet on the only suitors being losing teams.

I imagine 3 years was a nice middle ground where he would get a lot of guaranteed money, stay with the team through their apparent peak, and then splash down in a cap world with 100M team salaries rather than the 70M he is starting in.

DeMar has no such incentive - he will be a FA not only with a high cap, but also while the cap is growing, so that he will be among the very few free agents to get the first inflated deals - meaning the cap will be high, but also the ratio of available cap to available players will be very, very high. Taking a shortened deal puts him in a slightly higher cap world, but also a much more saturated free agent market, with teams that will have already blown loads of cash two years running (and with the cap levelling off quickly).

[planetmars]

Which teams will have have room for a $25M contract in 2016?

Relgm has this article:
http://basketball.realgm.com/analysi...l-30-NBA-Teams

A lot of lottery teams in the top half of that list.. and 50-win teams have their own free agents to deal with (or the SG spot already filled).

[DanH]

Which teams will have have room for a $25M contract in 2016?

Relgm has this article:
http://basketball.realgm.com/analysi...l-30-NBA-Teams

A lot of lottery teams in the top half of that list.. and 50-win teams have their own free agents to deal with (or the SG spot already filled).

Try as I might I can't figure out how they got that cap number for the Raptors. I'm going to go ahead and not trust that list.

In any case, there are 23 teams on that list with the theoretical ability to fit a max contract for DD. Not exactly a shallow pool however you slice it.

Also, Boston, Dallas, WAS, HOU, CHA, MEM, MIA, ATL all sit in the top 15 (teams with over 30M potential cap room) plus bottom feeders who could nonetheless be desirable locations like LAL and BKN.

[JWash]

Which teams will have have room for a $25M contract in 2016?

Relgm has this article:
http://basketball.realgm.com/analysi...l-30-NBA-Teams

A lot of lottery teams in the top half of that list.. and 50-win teams have their own free agents to deal with (or the SG spot already filled).

Ok I just eyeballed things and looked at players that teams need to re-sign, but...

It looks like the only playoff team that could really go after DeMar are Utah, Boston, Detroit and Indiana. The other ones either don't have the room are would need to sacrifice a key player to do so (e.g. Atlanta with Horford or Dallas with Chandler Parsons).

Biggest threats are going to be big market lottery teams like New York, Brooklyn, L.A.

[JWash]

Try as I might I can't figure out how they got that cap number for the Raptors. I'm going to go ahead and not trust that list.

In any case, there are 23 teams on that list with the theoretical ability to fit a max contract for DD. Not exactly a shallow pool however you slice it.

Also, Boston, Dallas, WAS, HOU, CHA, MEM, MIA, ATL all sit in the top 15 (teams with over 30M potential cap room) plus bottom feeders who could nonetheless be desirable locations like LAL and BKN.

I think it was made before we extended JV/Ross, I think I remember reading it back then.

[Wild-ling#1]

Yes I understand all of that, but my point is that many people seem to be predicting even less than the $1.6M annual. It is to them that I am asking why would Demar take that? People starting at $20M and $22M.

Opposing teams Max is likely the minimum he takes unless it is somehow related to Durant signing here.

I agree. I think that those of us who were more "bullish" on DeMar's abilities/prospects were assuming that some GM's would agree (with his RR supporters) and gamble on DD's abilities to deliver on a "max" contract.

But as he, more and more, actually evidences the present ability to perform at the "max" player level (remembering that there are "max" players and still higher performing "max" players) the likelihood of his offering Toronto a significant discount, I think, diminishes ...

Things have changed. But perhaps a significant discount is still possible - and perhaps even based, alone, on his desire to remain here ... but it does seem less likely ...

Still, if Masai is able to interest a KD or a Horford in coming, as you suggest, Axel, that might make a difference to what DeMar would accept and (as Dan is thinking) how a contract might be structured - even to the point, perhaps, of DeMar accepting a 1+1 kind of deal. That he and Kyle are "upping" their game is still good news, in this (practical, hard-boiled) sense, I think ... They're both the "real deal", it seems. And a matched set, too ...

Overall, I still think it's good news that they're showing what they're showing.

[planetmars]

Ok I just eyeballed things and looked at players that teams need to re-sign, but...

It looks like the only playoff team that could really go after DeMar are Utah, Boston, Detroit and Indiana. The other ones either don't have the room are would need to sacrifice a key player to do so (e.g. Atlanta with Horford or Dallas with Chandler Parsons).

Biggest threats are going to be big market lottery teams like New York, Brooklyn, L.A.

The debate is that DD will be getting $107M at minimum from some other team, and Masai would have to match. I brought up Millsap as an argument saying that he signed back for 3 years and not the 4 that Orlando offered him. Dan rebutted that fact by saying Atlanta was a 60 win team and Orlando was a 30 win team hence his reasoning to drop a year.

I don't believe Utah/Boston or Detroit will win 50 games.. and I suspect Indiana has their wings locked up (Miles/Ellis/PG).

So DD could go back to Toronto for less years (or less money) just to play with a 50 win club - just like Millsap did.

[mcHAPPY]

The debate is that DD will be getting $107M at minimum from some other team, and Masai would have to match. I brought up Millsap as an argument saying that he signed back for 3 years and not the 4 that Orlando offered him. Dan rebutted that fact by saying Atlanta was a 60 win team and Orlando was a 30 win team hence his reasoning to drop a year.

I don't believe Utah/Boston or Detroit will win 50 games.. and I suspect Indiana has their wings locked up (Miles/Ellis/PG).

So DD could go back to Toronto for less years (or less money) just to play with a 50 win club - just like Millsap did.

Need to remember:

1) Atlanta didn't have full bird rights as he was coming off 2 year deal

2) the third year is a PO. Millsap has set himself up to get one last big pay day in 2017 with cap at projected $108m and he 32. If he had taken max 4 years he would have been 34 and unlikely to score a deal he might at 32.


Strangely enough in the DeRozan thread, Millsap is a good example of a guy who continues to get better each season as he approaches 31 years of age in February. DD has a few years to go but most guys in league are what they are after 3-4 years. Notice I said most there. Always examples of guys who break the rule. Those guys are usually true pros it seems (either naturally or after maturing).

[rightsideup]

nba tv half predicting demar will be a laker next year

[Wild-ling#1]

nba tv half predicting demar will be a laker next year

Fair to assume those who are now agreeing that there is less reason for DeMar to accept a (significant) sub-max contract might also agree that his walking would - likely- be a major set-back for the Raptors?

(Back to the "kiddie-table" for next Christmas dinner, if you take my meaning ... )

[Barolt]

Fair to assume those who are now agreeing that there is less reason for DeMar to accept a (significant) sub-max contract might also agree that his walking would - likely- be a major set-back for the Raptors?

(Back to the "kiddie-table" for next Christmas dinner, if you take my meaning ... )

If DeMar leaves, our best course to staying a playoff team is to build an inside out offense around JV. We actually have a not terrible squad for that, and would be set up with some decent cap space the next 2 summers to work with.

Whether DeMar stays or leaves, I trust Masai.

[Wild-ling#1]

If DeMar leaves, our best course to staying a playoff team is to build an inside out offense around JV. We actually have a not terrible squad for that, and would be set up with some decent cap space the next 2 summers to work with.

Whether DeMar stays or leaves, I trust Masai.

Maybe so (in terms of what we have left) ... But I think the perception will be that we've just taken a sig nificant step back - when we were sooooooo ready to take a significant step forward ...

[Barolt]

Maybe so (in terms of what we have left) ... But I think the perception will be that we've just taken a sig nificant step back - when we were sooooooo ready to take a significant step forward ...

Are we that close to taking a leap forward? I'm not sure we are. The last two years we've been a playoff team that isn't a favorite to make it far in the playoffs. That's where we'll be this year.

Noone's going to favor us to go to the Finals, let alone win a championship this year, and the current roster I don't see suddenly becoming that team.