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  • I think we need to be careful to use "top 3" or "top 5" when discussing contracts. There is a huge leap between the "top 2" to the third player in that list.. and justifying paying the 3rd player as much as the first two guys can create problems.

    Rudy Gay when he got his extension from Memphis was considered a "top 5" SF at the time.. but was not as good as the guys ahead of him. The guys that came behind him were worse but with better salaries made them better assets. Memphis had to dump a prime Rudy gay for the corpse of Jose Calderon and Ed Davis (who they basically flipped a year later).

    So if the goal is to sign DD because his market value is $26-27M a year.. because he's a top 3 SG... and then later have to flip him because the team is stuck in mediocrity (as a potential scenario)... we'll probably have to get back bit pieces that don't really help much.

    So Masai needs to be really careful with his decision. He has to hope DD continues to play like he has and/or better within a new/different system or if Lowry leaves and we have a different type of PG next to him (and I believe this is the point that Axel is trying to make in that other thread).

    And if the Raptors fail to advance into the 2nd round again.. then I'd really hope DD is not part of the plans despite how well he's playing. I just can't fathom giving someone that much money when the ceiling for the team is the first round.

    Comment


    • 92TillInfinity wrote: View Post
      Other teams are doing it, because a max deal is the market value for a top 3 SG. This whole attitude of ignoring what the rest of the league is doing is exactly what had us drafting Bargnani. It's the same attitude that parents who homeschool their kids have. If it was just a handful of teams giving guys of DD's talent max level contracts, then we would have an issue. However, whether you want to admit it or not, DD is ballin' this year. The man has earned a close to max/max contract as of today, and will be getting one at the end of the season. I would hate to see DD leave, but as long as we get value in return for him, i dont care what happens.
      That kind of attitude is also what's had the Spurs be the best team in pro sports for 20 years, so I really don't know what your point is.

      No team should base their actions on the expected/supposed actions the rest of the league would take in the same situation. Teams have to figure out what's best for themselves, and sometimes that means going against conventional logic.

      Comment


      • planetmars wrote: View Post
        I think we need to be careful to use "top 3" or "top 5" when discussing contracts. There is a huge leap between the "top 2" to the third player in that list.. and justifying paying the 3rd player as much as the first two guys can create problems.

        Rudy Gay when he got his extension from Memphis was considered a "top 5" SF at the time.. but was not as good as the guys ahead of him. The guys that came behind him were worse but with better salaries made them better assets. Memphis had to dump a prime Rudy gay for the corpse of Jose Calderon and Ed Davis (who they basically flipped a year later).

        So if the goal is to sign DD because his market value is $26-27M a year.. because he's a top 3 SG... and then later have to flip him because the team is stuck in mediocrity (as a potential scenario)... we'll probably have to get back bit pieces that don't really help much.

        So Masai needs to be really careful with his decision. He has to hope DD continues to play like he has and/or better within a new/different system or if Lowry leaves and we have a different type of PG next to him (and I believe this is the point that Axel is trying to make in that other thread).

        And if the Raptors fail to advance into the 2nd round again.. then I'd really hope DD is not part of the plans despite how well he's playing. I just can't fathom giving someone that much money when the ceiling for the team is the first round.
        This goes beyond DeMar.

        If the Raptors fail to advance to the second round I would hope and expect the entire roster to be blown up (i.e. everyone north of 24 in age shipped out).

        Comment


        • JWash wrote: View Post
          This goes beyond DeMar.

          If the Raptors fail to advance to the second round I would hope and expect the entire roster to be blown up (i.e. everyone north of 24 in age shipped out).
          Depends why, no? Versus what team, with what players available ...

          And if everyone's healthy, versus Orlando, say ... maybe Casey takes the fall, Masai brings on someone useful (coach/player(s)) ... and we move on.

          I think too much is made of last year's playoff exit, given Kyle's struggles and the subsequent roster re-make. Some seem to equate with the Alamo or something, for Pete's sake.

          Comment


          • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
            Depends why, no? Versus what team, with what players available ...

            And if everyone's healthy, versus Orlando, say ... maybe Casey takes the fall, Masai brings on someone useful (coach/player(s)) ... and we move on.

            I think too much is made of last year's playoff exit, given Kyle's struggles and the subsequent roster re-make. Some seem to equate with the Alamo or something, for Pete's sake.
            Yeah ok, backtracking a bit you have a point here. Circumstance will definitely matter.

            I think the point I was trying to make was that if you are shipping out DD due to a lack of playoff success, blaming it just on him doesn't make sense. You should just blow it up.

            Comment


            • JWash wrote: View Post
              Yeah ok, backtracking a bit you have a point here. Circumstance will definitely matter.

              I think the point I was trying to make was that if you are shipping out DD due to a lack of playoff success, blaming it just on him doesn't make sense. You should just blow it up.
              At this point, maybe Casey does take the fall. I'm not persuaded that he's as flat-out dumb as some have oft suggested - or that he doesn't bring significant stability and class to the players/organization. But even so, at some point you have to try a new approach ... if there's real talent on the roster - which there clearly is, now. And if they get a decent match-up and underperform ... Much as I admire the man, you may have to try something new - even if what had been tried seemed eminently sensible (and I'm not sure that's true either, by the way ... as I've said, I'm on the fence with Casey ...).
              Last edited by Wild-ling#1; Thu Jan 14, 2016, 02:43 PM.

              Comment


              • thead wrote: View Post
                I'm ready to pay him the max because he is playing like he deserves it or close enough to it that a few dollars here of there is negligible

                It's more like people jumping off a bridge into the water that finally sprang up from the ground

                Its HAVING jumping off a bridge, into water that is only deep enough when a wave is coming in, and there is one currently there but for how long......

                Comment


                • 92TillInfinity wrote: View Post
                  This whole attitude of ignoring what the rest of the league is doing is exactly what had us drafting Bargnani.
                  Nope.

                  Bargnani was a concensus top 5 pick at the time.

                  Comment


                  • Snooch wrote: View Post
                    Nope.

                    Bargnani was a concensus top 5 pick at the time.
                    Yeah, kind of hard to turn down a 7 footer with the ability to shoot and a good enough handle to drive. Nobody knew he'd be as bad as he was.

                    Comment


                    • JWash wrote: View Post
                      Yeah ok, backtracking a bit you have a point here. Circumstance will definitely matter.

                      I think the point I was trying to make was that if you are shipping out DD due to a lack of playoff success, blaming it just on him doesn't make sense. You should just blow it up.


                      Demar would be the one to shoulder a large responsibility for the failures.

                      If he is supposed to be the "Man" and the "max" guy, with all the provems and shit, then he should shoulder a large majority of the blame.

                      Cannot heap all the glory on him when team is winning, and not reciprocate the loosing onto him.

                      Comment


                      • Wild-ling#1 wrote: View Post
                        At this point, maybe Casey does take the fall. I'm not persuaded that he's as flat-out dumb as some have oft suggested - or that he doesn't bring significant stability and class to the players/organization. But even so, at some point you have to try a new approach ... if there's real talent on the roster - which there clearly is, now. . And if they get a decent match-up and underperform ... Much as I admire the man, you may have to try something new - even if what had been tried seemed eminently sensible (and I'm not sure that's true either, by the way ... as I've said, I'm on the fence with Casey ...).
                        Casey is alot smarter than people give him credit for.

                        He runs the system that maximizes Demar, he impliments that system.

                        And the people who call for casey the loudest are usually the ones who praise Demar the most.

                        Comment


                        • JWash wrote: View Post
                          Yeah ok, backtracking a bit you have a point here. Circumstance will definitely matter.

                          I think the point I was trying to make was that if you are shipping out DD due to a lack of playoff success, blaming it just on him doesn't make sense. You should just blow it up.
                          Agreed.

                          If the Raps were to lose in the first round for a third straight season, or somehow miss the playoffs entirely, I think Casey would be the first and immediate casualty. I also have a hard time believing that both Lowry and DeRozan would be back, as they've been the dynamic duo driving the team for the past few seasons.

                          I still doubt DeRozan walks for nothing, unless its by his own choice.

                          It would almost make the most sense to re-sign DeRozan (then can't trade until Dec.15/16 I believe) and use Lowry (about to start his last season under contract) as trade bait either at the draft or in the offseason. I can't see MU keeping both of them, any more than I can see him keeping Casey, if that scenario were to play out.

                          Comment


                          • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                            Agreed.

                            If the Raps were to lose in the first round for a third straight season, or somehow miss the playoffs entirely, I think Casey would be the first and immediate casualty. I also have a hard time believing that both Lowry and DeRozan would be back, as they've been the dynamic duo driving the team for the past few seasons.

                            I still doubt DeRozan walks for nothing, unless its by his own choice.

                            It would almost make the most sense to re-sign DeRozan (then can't trade until Dec.15/16 I believe) and use Lowry (about to start his last season under contract) as trade bait either at the draft or in the offseason. I can't see MU keeping both of them, any more than I can see him keeping Casey, if that scenario were to play out.
                            Yeah if we end up losing in the first round again, I'd try to move up in the draft using Lowry.

                            Comment


                            • Snooch wrote: View Post
                              Demar would be the one to shoulder a large responsibility for the failures.

                              If he is supposed to be the "Man" and the "max" guy, with all the provems and shit, then he should shoulder a large majority of the blame.

                              Cannot heap all the glory on him when team is winning, and not reciprocate the loosing onto him.
                              But isn't Lowry considered the MVP and getting all that praise you speak of? Without having a clue what will actually happen in the playoffs, you're already placing blame on imagined failures on DD? What if Lowry, our MVP PG, shoots 31% for the series, and averages 1 less APG than DeMar, like last year? DeMar's fault?

                              Comment


                              • Snooch wrote: View Post
                                Nope.

                                Bargnani was a concensus top 5 pick at the time.
                                To go one step further he was actually the consensus #1 overall pick http://www.nba.com/draft2006/consensus.html

                                Comment

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