Everything Derozan

[JWash]

If you find the right price? Sure. Everybody has a price.

But I certainly wouldn't be giving any discounts....unless you know he is a goner this summer.

Would be a shame to wait 7 years for him to play respectable ball only to see him traded.

It would also be a shame to wait 7 years for him to play respectable ball only to watch him go back to ISO-long 2 ways, as well.

Salute on the Ted Dibiase reference lol

[planetmars]

Its not the best time to cash in on DD.. That was last summer. And its irrelevant since the Raptors are 2 games back from the first seed in the East.

If they were in Charlotte's position for example then that's a question you bring up since they could do the same with Batum for example.

So I don't agree with the OP. We missed our opportunity to cash in.

[Barolt]

I came into this season firmly on the 'let DeMar walk' bandwagon. His incredible December had me thinking he'd be worth keeping. Here's the thing...

In January, when everyone else is playing better, when our defense has become a real force, why's his defense getting worse?

When our shooters are hitting shots, why are his assists going down?

These are the things that give me pause.

[JWash]

Its not the best time to cash in on DD.. That was last summer. And its irrelevant since the Raptors are 2 games back from the first seed in the East.

If they were in Charlotte's position for example then that's a question you bring up since they could do the same with Batum for example.

So I don't agree with the OP. We missed our opportunity to cash in.

Coming off a season when he largely played like crap? Idk about that. Maybe you could say the summer of 2014.

[jimmie]

Without DeMar on it, in a vacuum, nothing back in return? We'd get worse.

With some value back in a trade, and a retooled offense built around JV surrounded by shooters and moving the ball? Who knows. Honestly, I have no idea.

The questions I've posed in the last week have been about whether or not DeMar makes his teammates better. If you think I'm wrong, if you think that he really does make everyone better, make the case. Make the case for keeping him. Because I'd love to hear why I'm wrong, and will readily admit it if I am.

Why does DD need to make others better in order for him to be worth a place in the "core" of this team going forward? He's doing everything that most people want from an alpha dog on an NBA team, doing it with admirable efficiency, and giving you good effort on the defensive end. There are may players holding that alpha dog role on other teams that aren't giving their teams what DD is giving the Raps. And I'd argue that a top dog who works his tail off every day, acts like a pro on and off the court, promotes the team at every turn is constantly "making his teammates better" regardless of what the stats say. Leadership, either vocal or by example, means something, and DD is showing both this year.

The counter argument to getting rid of him because he's "good, but not quite good enough" is why mess with success. Why would you re-tool an offense around JV when the existing offense is top-10 in the league and competing for the 1st seed in the East? (other than some irrational fear of last year's playoff history repeating itself -- which is indeed irrational considering the roster changes, system changes, etc. that make this year's team and last year's team drastically different)

It's nitpicking, plain and simple.

[JWash]

I came into this season firmly on the 'let DeMar walk' bandwagon. His incredible December had me thinking he'd be worth keeping. Here's the thing...

In January, when everyone else is playing better, when our defense has become a real force, why's his defense getting worse?

When our shooters are hitting shots, why are his assists going down?

These are the things that give me pause.

The thing about lineup stats is they can be kinda tricky when you have a good bench.

I'm looking at Atlanta right now and among their top 5 lineups with >= 50 minutes played. Millsap isn't in the best one, and Horford isn't in the 2nd best one. Confusing because those are their two best players. Teague isn't in any of the top 3, and Millsap wasn't in any of the top 2 last year.

[3inthekeon]

Just read Zach Lowe comparing Blake Griffin to DD

He is the DeMar DeRozan of power forwards -- the guy who lacks a skill that is normally a prerequisite for his position, but stands as a huge net-plus anyway because he has gotten so damn good at everything else.

[LJ2]

The entire offence was built around him and Lowry, but sure let's trade him in the hopes of matching the same success we are already having or better in the future.

[Mess]

This is the time to trade him. For once the "he'll never be better" actually applies. No this isn't the foolishness we've seen in the past where we swap him for Danny Green or Dion Waiters or a mid-late 1st round pick. This a legitimate star asset. He's there now. 23-5-4, efficient, advanced stats check out, he's big time, he's a star in this league and assassin a warrior, a scoring demon in a suit of skin, muscle and bones.

But we don't need him. TRoss has what it takes to be a starting SG in this league. 3+D, can stroke it from deep, athletic, can get out on the break and finish, lock down his man, play passing lanes, etc.

Time to cash in DeRozan. Deal him for a legitimate star at the PF position or a prospect who can become that. More flexibility, same talent level on the team. The only question now is who, when and how.

Well for one thing, and I'm sure it's been said already but, he'd be a rental for another team. Not an ideal time to "cash in" on a player.

[JWash]

The thing that confuses me a little is this abstract concept of "making other players better". What does that actually mean? The first thing that pops into my head when I read that is Steve Nash or LeBron, but nobody on our team does what those guys did.

[JWash]

Just read Zach Lowe comparing Blake Griffin to DD

I think it's an interesting comparison.

People are also saying the the Clippers are better without Griffin, much like it's been suggested that the Raptors may be better without DeRozan.

Very, very interesting comment from Lowe.

[Barolt]

I think it's an interesting comparison.

People are also saying the the Clippers are better without Griffin, much like it's been suggested that the Raptors may be better without DeRozan.

Very, very interesting comment from Lowe.

The context of that piece though is that he suggests trading Griffin because he's a hard piece to slot in to the offense because of his strange skill-set. The same thing can be said about DeMar in a way. If we had Klay, Harden, or Butler, JJ wouldn't hurt us as much offensively because we'd still have a dependable shooter at the 2. While DeMar's catch and shoot game has come a long way, it's still not nearly on the level of those guys.

[JWash]

I think it's an interesting comparison.

People are also saying the the Clippers are better without Griffin, much like it's been suggested that the Raptors may be better without DeRozan.

Very, very interesting comment from Lowe.

Just to expand on this a bit further. Both of them have really similar impact stats. oRTG, WS/48, PER, USG% and TS% all in very similar ranges.

And interestingly, the Clippers best lineup with over 50 minutes played doesn't feature Griffin. (It's CP3/Redick/Wesley/Mbah/Deandre).

I wonder if there are more players like this in the NBA. Their own individual box score and advanced stats suggest they're doing big things out there, but the team's best lineup doesn't include them, and the team goes on win streaks without them being a huge factor (DD's play worse in the streak than before it, Griffin not even playing during the Clips streak).

What do you do with these kind of players? Do you move them for value and find someone who fits better? Or do you overlook the lineup statistics and focus on their impact elsewhere. Or do these problems simply exist because while guys like Griffin/DD give you star production, they play next to superior players (CP3/Lowry) which might be affecting the lineup results?

[Barolt]

Just read Zach Lowe comparing Blake Griffin to DD

Griffin is a tricky piece in the modern NBA: a big man who doesn't shoot 3s or protect the rim. There is a lot of evidence suggesting that you can remove those players, even the ones with killer post-up games, replace them with skilled shooters who make less money, and lose basically nothing.

That's the paragraph right before the sentence you posted, and this might be applicable to DeMar as well though.

[Joey]

JWash ... tisk tisk ... this whole sarcastic approach to the thread is not a good look. I would drop the act if I were you.