Everything Derozan

[JWash]

[Demographic Shift]

I think it's an interesting comparison.

People are also saying the the Clippers are better without Griffin, much like it's been suggested that the Raptors may be better without DeRozan.

Very, very interesting comment from Lowe.

Lots of people say lots of things. Lowe is on deadline after all. I like him and his views on the NBA but it is possible that after ESPN shut down Grantland he is trying to show he has value in a new non Grantland like role. ESPN is a non performing asset in the Disney empire and may have to shed further pieces to keep the accountants happy. Nothing like saying things to generate clicks to rise above the herd eh? How else to explain Stephen A Smith ?

So it's very fair of you to do a what if question.... Raps would likely not be able to maximize their return on DD at the deadline. Sort of like selling your stock at the end of a bear market.

But in your hypothetical which is fair to float what do want for DD..a two time AllStar who is also on Team USA list for national representation?

This is a pretty valuable asset you propose selling. To sell its pretty important to get higher valuation than you currently have. Trading for equal value is almost why bother.
So what named player plus other valuations is your bar to sell?

[OldSkoolCool]

Re: JWash's post about cashing in on DD...and what we may get for him

Honestly with DDs contract situation any team that trades for him is going to want to have a commitment from him prior to going in on the trade. It will be a media and locker room disaster.

Also I dont see anything returning that makes us better immediately or help us majorly long term.

But theoretically we would be trading DD for playing time for Wright/Bruno/Powell/picks for next season. Which i think could be a very good thing ling term.

I think thats the best case...and which means we dont explore trades, play out the season, and let him walk in the offseason.

I dont think he is worth a max player...or even worth 20 mil and dont think we should be paying for someone with his skills in the new NBA

[thead]

speaking to trade value.

you will only get what people will give you for a player.

Yes DeRozan is playing his best.

BUT you have one of four options

AS THE OTHER team, you are trading for him because of

1.) You want to free up cap space and know he will walk. In which case you would offer assets in line with a salary dump i.e. a lower value expiring, maybe a rookie who isn't quite fitting in and low first or 2nd round pick. I think everyone would agree that this is not a good return for a two time all star that we have invested six years in.

2.) You are gambling that you can actually resign him. This would be the Lakers or Clippers or perhaps another team that thinks they know something . In this case you trade assets that you can afford to part with but nothing special because the risk is that he walks. Sure you have his bird rights, but ultimately if he doesn't like the situation you have no control. You would be far more likely to try and work a sign and trade in the offseason if you truly thought you had a chance.

3.) He agrees to pick up his option. I'd go into detail on this but since I can't even begin to fathom why a two time all star in his prime would do this I wont.

WHICH brings me the only plausible way he gets traded.

Masai sits him and down and says, Hey D, we are moving on and really want to give you the opportunity to pick your next team since you have been so good to us. Give us at least two options to work with and we will make sure you are taken care of. An unwritten wink wink nudge nudge agreement is made with the other team that he will resign for the five year max and we get assets that equal 10m.

So...there is no way in hell DeRozan gets traded in any way that returns anything to close to what we have invested.

If we were to trade DeRozan the time was last season, or even over the summer.

We will get pennies on the dollar now, and so any further trade discussion (unless you think Masai is an idiot) is truly pointless....

unless I've missed something....but I'm like Steve Nash FT% sure I'm right on this

[Barolt]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jyc7sjv

Here's a totally absurd trade that doesn't make much sense for the Clippers, but maybe makes sense for us.

[Mess]

I came into this season firmly on the 'let DeMar walk' bandwagon. His incredible December had me thinking he'd be worth keeping. Here's the thing...

In January, when everyone else is playing better, when our defense has become a real force, why's his defense getting worse?

When our shooters are hitting shots, why are his assists going down?

These are the things that give me pause.

Is a .5 assist per game decrease really giving you pause? It could be that he's taking one more 3PA a game (at a .429% clip). That's one less drive (and potential assist). Plus, in this stretch he's been guarded by the likes of Sasha Vujacic and Bojan Bogdanovic. Maybe not the best reasons to pass less (he averages 3.4 fewer passes in January) but it's somewhat understandable.

In general the Raps are making 10 fewer passes per game in January than they did in December and yet their assists went from 18.1 to 19.8 per game. The Kyle + bench lineup that's destroying teams is likely the reason behind the jump in assists.

And it's clear that they've been playing down to their competition - DeMar is not the only one guilty of this. Thankfully not enough to give away any games, but you can tell they're just fucking around, taking it easy during stretches in these games. (that DD to Ross alley oop is a pretty good example)

[Barolt]

Is a .5 assist per game decrease really giving you pause? It could be that he's taking one more 3PA a game (at a .429% clip). That's one less drive (and potential assist). Plus, in this stretch he's been guarded by the likes of Sasha Vujacic and Bojan Bogdanovic. Maybe not the best reasons to pass less (he averages 3.4 fewer passes in January) but it's somewhat understandable.

In general the Raps are making 10 fewer passes per game in January than they did in December and yet their assists went from 18.1 to 19.8 per game. The Kyle + bench lineup that's destroying teams is likely the reason behind the jump in assists.

And it's clear that they've been playing down to their competition - DeMar is not the only one guilty of this. Thankfully not enough to give away any games, but you can tell they're just fucking around, taking it easy during stretches in these games. (that DD to Ross alley oop is a pretty good example)

It's not the .5 assists per game, it's the 5% drop in his assist ratio from December versus the 10-game winning streak.

During the 10-game winning streak, DeMar has played 255 minutes with JV, passed to him 42 times.(once per 6 minutes) He's played 169 minutes with 2Pat, passed to him 31 times(around once per 5 minutes) Played 123 minutes with Ross, passed to him 17 times(once per 7 minutes).

Same period, Lowry's played 244 minutes with JV, passed to him 80 times(once per 3 minutes). 217 minutes with 2Pat, passed to him 57 times(once per 4 minutes). 170 minutes with Ross, passed to him 42 times(once per 4 minutes).

When I say he doesn't make guys better, I mean he doesn't involve them in his offense.

[thead]

one thing to keep in mind about unorthodox players is...as things trend towards 3 & D at the 2 3 and 4, teams will adjust talent and schemes to take away the 3pt line. As that unfolds suddenly the mid range game and drive and kick becomes a lot more valuable. It's important to have a dynamic team with a lot of different skills if you want to be truly successful.

A team like the warriors has two of the best swiss army knife players in the game in Igoudala and Draymond Green.

a centre that can pass and play D with the best of them.

I don't think the key to victory is to pair Ricky Rubio with a Kyle Korver type at the 2, 3 and 4, and play Channing Frye as your Centre

[Barolt]

one thing to keep in mind about unorthodox players is...as things trend towards 3 & D at the 2 3 and 4, teams will adjust talent and schemes to take away the 3pt line. As that unfolds suddenly the mid range game and drive and kick becomes a lot more valuable. It's important to have a dynamic team with a lot of different skills if you want to be truly successful.

A team like the warriors has two of the best swiss army knife players in the game in Igoudala and Draymond Green.

a centre that can pass and play D with the best of them.

I don't think the key to victory is to pair Ricky Rubio with a Kyle Korver type at the 2, 3 and 4, and play Channing Frye as your Centre

The best way to beat a defense that spreads out to take away the 3 point line is with a dominant big man that demands double teams and can pass. Think we can find a guy like that on our roster?

[thead]

The best way to beat a defense that spreads out to take away the 3 point line is with a dominant big man that demands double teams and can pass. Think we can find a guy like that on our roster?

maybe JV develops into that or maybe he doesn't, but the second best way is to be able to drive if they take the 3 away and collapse the defense, forces a foul or you get a layup.

Another way is high screen and roll, you can do it with the 1 or 2 into the centre of the paint this again collapses the extended D and should the ball handler have any sort of vision, SOMEONE will be open.

There is more than one way to skin a cat, although I do like having a big that can pass as its great for busting zones should they be used

[thead]

Igauskus and Lebron used to run a play all the time where they would screen and Zyundras would pop to about 15 - 18ft. This gave Lebron free range in the paint.

I'd love to see a DeRozan, JV version of that

[Barolt]

Igauskus and Lebron used to run a play all the time where they would screen and Zyundras would pop to about 15 - 18ft. This gave Lebron free range in the paint.

I'd love to see a DeRozan, JV version of that

The DeRozan/JV 2-man game is awesome. Unfortunately, we don't use it enough, and use it even less to create for JV.

[JWash]

I think the number of bigs that can support a 4 out offense is very limited. In fact I'm not sure I can actually think of one in the NBA right now.

The thing is not only do they need to be able to anchor the offense in the post, they also need to be able to anchor the defense on the other end. Because in all likelihood you're not getting a PF who is both a marksman from 3 AND a defensive anchor because those are really few and far between to the point of being non-existent (the only one even close in the NBA is Ibaka and I wouldn't call him a defensive anchor so much as an elite weakside/helpside defender).

Orlando was able to do this and be successful with it in 2009 because they had Dwight Howard. Dwight Howard was impacting the game at a level only surpassed by LeBron (and that was even debatable) at the time. Absolutely dominant defensively, and an elite finisher around the basket. Also those Orlando teams were primarily good because of Dwight's defense, they weren't particularly great on the offensive end (1st in the league in defense in 2009 and 11th in offense).

It's very difficult to replicate. And even those Orlando teams had two penetrators on the outside (Hedo and Jameer) not just 1.

[JWash]

Igauskus and Lebron used to run a play all the time where they would screen and Zyundras would pop to about 15 - 18ft. This gave Lebron free range in the paint.

I'd love to see a DeRozan, JV version of that

This is a great idea.

One thing I've never really understood is JV's reluctance to shoot that shot though. He's absolutely money from there this year shooting 47.4% from 16-23 feet and the about the same (47.4%) from 10-16 feet. Hardly takes any though, they make up 15.3% of his shots combined.

[Demographic Shift]

Re: JWash's post about cashing in on DD...and what we may get for him

Honestly with DDs contract situation any team that trades for him is going to want to have a commitment from him prior to going in on the trade. It will be a media and locker room disaster.

Also I dont see anything returning that makes us better immediately or help us majorly long term.

But theoretically we would be trading DD for playing time for Wright/Bruno/Powell/picks for next season. Which i think could be a very good thing ling term.

I think thats the best case...and which means we dont explore trades, play out the season, and let him walk in the offseason.

I dont think he is worth a max player...or even worth 20 mil and dont think we should be paying for someone with his skills in the new NBA

So you would trade a two time AllStar and potential national team player for additional playing time for two rookies selected 20th and one taken 44th which you could have for no cost at your discretion.

Edit..I also was remiss in observing your idea that letting one of your two most valuable assets, that you have invested 7 years developing into one of the 30 best players in the league, walk away for nothing.

Shrewd.