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  • JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I wonder if there is a correlation there. Ross doesn't seem to be the type that responds well to increased responsibility and pressure. Well, I don't know if I should say it like that, but giving him a limited role with limited responsibility in which he knows what he needs to do and how to do it and isn't expected to be too creative seems to suit him well. And hopefully he will grow into the type that will embrace those types of challenges and will excel with increased responsibility. Remember, Ross used to start for this team, so it's not like he hasn't had the opportunity to "break out" so to speak. But he has much talent, and hopefully with time he will start to show more.

    As for JV, I'm kinda with ya. I think he should get more time and/or responsibility. However, I do not think the offensive system, or lack thereof, is to blame here. But I think JV's development is going fine, and perhaps he could produce more if given more opportunity, but why rush it when we are doing so well as a team, and he continues to improve? He has come so far the last 3 seasons, specifically defensively, that I find it difficult to be upset with the franchise's handling of him.
    With Ross that would make sense, except...

    He started this better play in December, during Carroll's first injury, when he started and played 31 MPG over a 9-game stretch.
    twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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    • Actually, I know this is totally off-topic, but looking at Ross' splits by minutes...

      WHen he plays 30-39 minutes, he shoots 47.9% from the field, 42.9% from 3, 62.6% true shooting.

      When he plays 20-29 minutes, he shoots 48.6% from the field, 40.3% from 3, 61.1% true shooting.

      When he plays 10-19 minutes, he shoots 25.4% from the field, 25.7% from 3, 34.2% true shooting.

      So playing him less doesn't make him better.
      twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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      • Barolt wrote: View Post
        With Ross that would make sense, except...

        He started this better play in December, during Carroll's first injury, when he started and played 31 MPG over a 9-game stretch.
        He's not talking about minutes here.

        Ross has a very specific skillset. Shooting catch and shoot 3s and mid-range jumpers off 1 hop, and play defense. Perhaps the lowered touches actually HELPED him because it meant the majority of his touches came in situations where he was more likely to succeed as opposed to in situations where he needed to create for himself or someone else (which is currently outside his skillset). Just because a guy is doing well in his role doesn't mean you need to force-feed him more usage. The guy might be doing well precisely because of the amount of/limited usage that he's getting.

        Ross' role on offense is as a spot up shooter. The amount of touches he's getting actually make sense given his role.

        He's averaging 18.7 front court touches per game in 23.5 minutes, so about 0.80 per minute. Kyle Korver who had a similar role offensively (although more expanded than Ross' because he was a more deadly shooter) for the Hawks last year averaged 30.2 front court touches per game in 32.2 minutes so about 0.94 per minute. That's not a significant difference.

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        • Barolt wrote: View Post
          Actually, I know this is totally off-topic, but looking at Ross' splits by minutes...

          WHen he plays 30-39 minutes, he shoots 47.9% from the field, 42.9% from 3, 62.6% true shooting.

          When he plays 20-29 minutes, he shoots 48.6% from the field, 40.3% from 3, 61.1% true shooting.

          When he plays 10-19 minutes, he shoots 25.4% from the field, 25.7% from 3, 34.2% true shooting.

          So playing him less doesn't make him better.
          Those games where he only plays 10-19 minutes are usually when he is playing like crap.

          Casey probably plans to give him 20-25 minutes at least in the rotation every night. So if he's playing less he's either not playing well or in foul trouble.

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          • JWash wrote: View Post
            He's not talking about minutes here.

            Ross has a very specific skillset. Shooting catch and shoot 3s and mid-range jumpers off 1 hop, and play defense. Perhaps the lowered touches actually HELPED him because it meant the majority of his touches came in situations where he was more likely to succeed as opposed to in situations where he needed to create for himself or someone else (which is currently outside his skillset). Just because a guy is doing well in his role doesn't mean you need to force-feed him more usage. The guy might be doing well precisely because of the amount of/limited usage that he's getting.

            Ross' role on offense is as a spot up shooter. The amount of touches he's getting actually make sense given his role.

            He's averaging 18.7 front court touches per game in 23.5 minutes, so about 0.80 per minute. Kyle Korver who had a similar role offensively (although more expanded than Ross' because he was a more deadly shooter) for the Hawks last year averaged 30.2 front court touches per game in 32.2 minutes so about 0.94 per minute. That's not a significant difference.
            The difference between 0.80 touches per minute and 0.94 touches per minute is an 18% difference in total touches. That's not insignificant.
            twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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            • Barolt wrote: View Post
              The difference between 0.80 touches per minute and 0.94 touches per minute is an 18% difference in total touches. That's not insignificant.
              Yep and when you consider the fact that we're comparing a guy who was shooting at unheard of levels last season (49% on almost 3 makes per game) to a guy who is just very good but not legendary from the line, the difference becomes justified.

              There is absolutely nothing wrong with Ross' current role on this team.

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              • JWash wrote: View Post
                This will never happen.

                I know DeMar has gotten better this year. But how is he going to get better than any of the following players:

                LeBron
                Curry
                Durant
                Davis
                Harden
                CP3
                Westbrook
                Kawhi
                Griffin
                Lowry

                Among others... Let's temper our expectations a bit. He doesn't need to be a top 10 player and he's not going to get there, those guys are all on a totally different level.
                I know this a DeMar thread, but how can you have a top 10 list with Lowry on it, and omit DeMarcus?

                He's top 5 at this stage of his career

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                • Bourgozie wrote: View Post
                  I know this a DeMar thread, but how can you have a top 10 list with Lowry on it, and omit DeMarcus?

                  He's top 5 at this stage of his career
                  "Among Others"

                  That wasn't my list of the top 10 players in the NBA, I just quickly rattled off 10 guys who DeMar will never be better than (at least at their current levels of play)

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                  • JWash wrote: View Post
                    Those games where he only plays 10-19 minutes are usually when he is playing like crap.

                    Casey probably plans to give him 20-25 minutes at least in the rotation every night. So if he's playing less he's either not playing well or in foul trouble.
                    You're massively overrating Casey's ability to make in-game adjustments, I think. If you've watched games, you've seen that Casey simply isn't that good at in-game adjustments to lineups. Or else why are we almost 50 games into the season and yet to field a working starting lineup?(aside from the one with Ross/Biz, which is the ONLY lineup we have to start games with a positive net rating)
                    twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                    • Barolt wrote: View Post
                      You're massively overrating Casey's ability to make in-game adjustments, I think. If you've watched games, you've seen that Casey simply isn't that good at in-game adjustments to lineups. Or else why are we almost 50 games into the season and yet to field a working starting lineup?(aside from the one with Ross/Biz, which is the ONLY lineup we have to start games with a positive net rating)
                      You're making every excuse in the world for Ross right now.

                      I'm not praising Casey's rotations here, I'm saying that the guy generally will play a guy less if he's not playing well (this is just a really obvious fact) unless it's one of his star guys (ie. DeMar/Kyle who get their 35+ no matter what). If you honestly think that Ross is playing worse because of getting less minutes rather than the other way around, then idk what to tell you. Like it's such a ridiculous assertion.

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                      • Barolt wrote: View Post
                        With Ross that would make sense, except...

                        He started this better play in December, during Carroll's first injury, when he started and played 31 MPG over a 9-game stretch.
                        So that means that Ross does have the opportunity in this system no? I mean Demar and Kyle were playing in December...

                        Ross really needs to embrace the 6th man role he currently has. Period.

                        There are plenty of opportunities for both players. We're just not in the position to force minutes/plays, because we have two better players in Kyle and Demar.

                        This happens on winning teams.

                        Now if you wanna talk about Bruno, Wright or Powell..... I can see your point. But to say that JV or Ross doesn't get a chance in this system is incorrect (imo). They have a role in this system...very important ones.

                        Veteran players like Carroll and Scola got plenty of opportunities in this system because they know where to be and when. That's the next step for JV.... He needs to expand his range and know where to be on the floor.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                        • JWash wrote: View Post
                          You're making every excuse in the world for Ross right now.

                          I'm not praising Casey's rotations here, I'm saying that the guy generally will play a guy less if he's not playing well (this is just a really obvious fact) unless it's one of his star guys (ie. DeMar/Kyle who get their 35+ no matter what). If you honestly think that Ross is playing worse because of getting less minutes rather than the other way around, then idk what to tell you. Like it's such a ridiculous assertion.
                          When it comes to Ross, there's this idea that he plays worse when he plays less minutes because Casey pulls him whenever he's bad. But Casey's in-game adjustments just aren't that good. I think Ross plays worse when he isn't given opportunities, which isn't an unreasonable argument.

                          When DeMar's shot isn't falling, it would make sense to bench him, because he's a below average defender. Ross is a very good defender by most metrics(nylon calculus' matchup production has him top 10 in the league, he has a very good DFG% and a solid DRtg), so it makes sense to keep him out there regardless of his shot falling.

                          Casey's rotations often don't make sense, and you've made that argument before. So why are you suddenly assuming Casey is a savant when it comes to Ross' minutes?
                          twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                          • Barolt wrote: View Post
                            When it comes to Ross, there's this idea that he plays worse when he plays less minutes because Casey pulls him whenever he's bad. But Casey's in-game adjustments just aren't that good. I think Ross plays worse when he isn't given opportunities, which isn't an unreasonable argument.

                            When DeMar's shot isn't falling, it would make sense to bench him, because he's a below average defender. Ross is a very good defender by most metrics(nylon calculus' matchup production has him top 10 in the league, he has a very good DFG% and a solid DRtg), so it makes sense to keep him out there regardless of his shot falling.

                            Casey's rotations often don't make sense, and you've made that argument before. So why are you suddenly assuming Casey is a savant when it comes to Ross' minutes?
                            You are putting words in my mouth... no in fact saying the opposite of what I have said. So I'm done with the conversation now.

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                            • special1 wrote: View Post
                              So that means that Ross does have the opportunity in this system no? I mean Demar and Kyle were playing in December...

                              Ross really needs to embrace the 6th man role he currently has. Period.

                              There are plenty of opportunities for both players. We're just not in the position to force minutes/plays, because we have two better players in Kyle and Demar.

                              This happens on winning teams.

                              Now if you wanna talk about Bruno, Wright or Powell..... I can see your point. But to say that JV or Ross doesn't get a chance in this system is incorrect (imo). They have a role in this system...very important ones.

                              Veteran players like Carroll and Scola got plenty of opportunities in this system because they know where to be and when. That's the next step for JV.... He needs to expand his range and know where to be on the floor.


                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                              Funny thing is... Ross is better this season at SF than SG, according to Nyloncalculus. Both offensively and defensively. So playing him beside DeMar/Lowry really shouldn't be an issue. I didn't bring up Ross here though, you did.
                              twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                              • Barolt wrote: View Post
                                Funny thing is... Ross is better this season at SF than SG, according to Nyloncalculus. Both offensively and defensively. So playing him beside DeMar/Lowry really shouldn't be an issue. I didn't bring up Ross here though, you did.
                                This is why I'm very sceptical of advanced stats.

                                Everyone knows that Ross isn't a SF and cannot guard SFs because he's too weak.

                                I would like to know how many minutes they actually think Ross is guarding/playing SF.



                                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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