Everything Derozan

[Mess]

But this doesn't really make any sense.

A bunch of us 'fringe, basement-dwelling internet fans' (to paraphrase) suggested that last season's scramble defense didn't suit the team's personnel, and that a shift to a different defensive system would benefit the team.

The Raptors, under Casey's leadership, switched from a scramble defense to a more traditional defense this season, and it has paid dividends for the team. It has also turned several of the worst offenders (and those that us fans felt were the worst fit in that system - ie: JV) into quality defenders, simply by allowing them to play more to their strengths.

Casey did exactly what a lot of us fans were clamoring for, and it has worked. Does that give us fans some credibility, or does that sink Casey down to the they 'lowly fan' level? Something's got to give, no??

If you're looking for credit and credibility for posting on the internet you are going to be disappointed.

If Casey or DD are only reading (or being relayed) the comments on ESPN I can hardly blame them. But whether it's Casey or Wilbon saying it, it's still dumb to lump everyone together. It's just a waste of energy to get offended by it.

Shit, I'm a former unemployed, basement dwelling, forum posting, hardcore World of Warcraft playing, internet fan and I don't personally feel criticized when I hear comments like this. Why? Because I wasn't a gigantic hateful douche (and maybe some denial).

[Snooch]

Here's the problem though. The context.

The anti-DeRozan crowd (sorry not sure what else to call that group) never said, "Oh DD needs to do this, this and this to get better" or "If we put DeRozan in different positions/spots he could do X, Y and Z better". It was mostly "He can't do A, B, and C so he sucks and we need to get rid of him".

I already quoted where I brought up in the summer how a better system could put DeRozan in positions to succeed and be more efficient on the floor. I thought he'd need that kind of push from the coaching staff/system to be successful, turns out he did it himself. But I was getting killed around May/June or so for those kind of posts.

To pay a player and to treat a player as the man you should not be required to tailor everything offensively and defensively so closely that one tiny slip and the whole thing crashes down


That is what we do with demar. .


One single little straw and it all reverts to hero ball.

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[CalgaryRapsFan]

If you're looking for credit and credibility for posting on the internet you are going to be disappointed.

If Casey or DD are only reading (or being relayed) the comments on ESPN I can hardly blame them. But whether it's Casey or Wilbon saying it, it's still dumb to lump everyone together. It's just a waste of energy to get offended by it.

Agreed. I don't need a virtual high-five for sharing my thoughts like everybody else, nor do I care what Casey (or any player, coach or GM) says to the media. The only thing that bugs me is the inference that anybody not currently coaching an NBA team has no intelligence, experience, ability or insight to draw upon, to enable them to put forth a legitimate opinion about the sport of basketball.

It goes back to something I said earlier in the year or possibly in the offseason, along with a meme of Obi-Wan Kenobi. If fans are stupid and make a stupid suggestion, and an intelligent coach winds up doing exactly what the stupid fans suggested, what does that make him? If the intelligent coach is successful implementing the stupid suggestion, there's a logical error somewhere in that equation.

The bottom line is that sometimes the collective experience and intelligence of fans can result in a good idea being put forth (among all the garbage and trash talk, granted), even though they're/we're just lowly fans.

[JWash]

To pay a player and to treat a player as the man you should not be required to tailor everything offensively and defensively so closely that one tiny slip and the whole thing crashes down


That is what we do with demar. .


One single little straw and it all reverts to hero ball.

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You put in place a system to maximize all the players on your team and put everyone in a position to succeed. That's what good teams do.

[jimmie]

AThe only thing that bugs me is the inference that anybody not currently coaching an NBA team has no intelligence, experience, ability or insight to draw upon, to enable them to put forth a legitimate opinion about the sport of basketball.

Man, no one is saying that. But to infer the opposite -- that professionals who are well-paid and have a lifetime of elite basketball experience under their belts know LESS than fans -- that's just silly.

I think what gets some people is seeing posters who -- for the sake of argument -- watch maybe 40-50 Raps games a year, 15-20 other various NBA games and a few episodes of Open Gym and think that they know better than all those pros. Like there's not more going on, more to see, more to understand about all of the dynamics of what determines wins and losses on a day to day basis in the NBA that we'll NEVER have access to.

It's not that we can't have opinions and even get invested in what we *believe* needs to change, but if you can't admit that someone in there every day with those players and coaches doesn't maybe know something you don't... that's just crazy talk. We're all just guessing and throwing darts.

[Barolt]

Man, no one is saying that. But to infer the opposite -- that professionals who are well-paid and have a lifetime of elite basketball experience under their belts know LESS than fans -- that's just silly.

I think what gets some people is seeing posters who -- for the sake of argument -- watch maybe 40-50 Raps games a year, 15-20 other various NBA games and a few episodes of Open Gym and think that they know better than all those pros. Like there's not more going on, more to see, more to understand about all of the dynamics of what determines wins and losses on a day to day basis in the NBA that we'll NEVER have access to.

It's not that we can't have opinions and even get invested in what we *believe* needs to change, but if you can't admit that someone in there every day with those players and coaches doesn't maybe know something you don't... that's just crazy talk. We're all just guessing and throwing darts.

Sometimes a fresh perspective is all it takes to solve a difficult problem. No matter how smart you are, no matter how talented you are, as you get more invested the big picture gets more blurry.

You don't have to be a genius to have a good idea, and you don't have to be an idiot to have a bad one.

[jimmie]

Sometimes a fresh perspective is all it takes to solve a difficult problem. No matter how smart you are, no matter how talented you are, as you get more invested the big picture gets more blurry.

You don't have to be a genius to have a good idea, and you don't have to be an idiot to have a bad one.

Not sure what you're getting at. Creative out of the box thinking can bring a new perspective to a problem? Great.

I'm not sure whose "same old thinking" you're referring to that needs to change. If you're suggesting the Raps, then you're playing right into my point. What kind of person rationally thinks that this is NOT happening in the Raps front office/coaching room already? That the ideas and stats being knocked back and forth on this forum have never been considered by the team?

Come on... that's some out of the box thinking right there...

[Barolt]

Not sure what you're getting at. Creative out of the box thinking can bring a new perspective to a problem? Great.

I'm not sure whose "same old thinking" you're referring to that needs to change. If you're suggesting the Raps, then you're playing right into my point. What kind of person rationally thinks that this is NOT happening in the Raps front office/coaching room already? That the ideas and stats being knocked back and forth on this forum have never been considered by the team?

Come on... that's some out of the box thinking right there...

What I'm saying is this idea that because none of us are basketball professionals, that doesn't mean we can't have good ideas, and it certainly doesn't mean we can't have fresh ideas.

[JWash]

Outside of the last few years....an awful lot of teams had a go to bigman down low or a player that could consistantly post up down there, and last i checked nash didnt win any titles



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You either don't get it or you just don't want to get it. I'm done.

[jimmie]

What I'm saying is this idea that because none of us are basketball professionals, that doesn't mean we can't have good ideas, and it certainly doesn't mean we can't have fresh ideas.

Did you read my post?

I explicitly said that it's fine to discuss your ideas, good and bad, but the tone of these discussions is that Casey is an idiot who needs to do what this forum suggests is best for the team, and that Demar Derozan has, up until the past few months, been a selfish player intent on developing himself on in such a way as to get his. Ujiri has eluded contempt so far, I expect, because he's generally spent most of his time cleaning up the mess left behind his predecessors and hasn't done anything yet to suggest that he, too, is an idiot in comparison to fans.

Are you seriously going to argue that an idea conjured up on a message board by someone who only has access to free data from the Internet is going to be better/more legit/more based in sound research and experience than that arrived at by a professional sports team's staff? If it is, it's by accident, not some idiot-savant stroke of genius.

[special1]

Hahahhahahaaaaa.

Are you serious. THAT is EXACTLY what he is doing, and he SHOULD.

hahahahahaaaa

It is tickling me with glee that you guys are all salty about this.... but even more so, that I didn't have to be the one to put ya back in your place for once, this time it comes right from the source, and guess what, he is 100% bang on.

I honestly missed Superjudge.

Don't ever leave!


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[Barolt]

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201942/tracking/defense/

On the subject of DeMar's defense... over the last 10 games, players guarded by DeMar are shooting 60% from the field, 45.5% from three.

[A.I]

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201942/tracking/defense/

On the subject of DeMar's defense... over the last 10 games, players guarded by DeMar are shooting 60% from the field, 45.5% from three.

Demar is and always will be an average defender. That part of his game won't improve.


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[special1]

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201942/tracking/defense/

On the subject of DeMar's defense... over the last 10 games, players guarded by DeMar are shooting 60% from the field, 45.5% from three.

Would like to know the numbers when he's guarding his position (SG) vs. SF (due to Carroll's absence).


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[JWash]

Would like to know the numbers when he's guarding his position (SG) vs. SF (due to Carroll's absence).


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His DFG% numbers are pretty mediocre for the whole season, so it doesn't really matter.

DeRozan's never been a good defender, just ok there nothing special not a sieve either.