Everything Derozan

[special1]

special1 are you sure about all that "haters" stuff?

Every player has their flaws and positives things. This is public forum and everyone can freely express their opinion. I have a hard time believing that team fan(s) actually hate player like DeMar. I understand hate on guys like Bargnani ( publicly telling that he's just being lazy. that's unprofessional ), but cmon, DeMar worked his ass off, he's got some flaws in his game - like everyone else, but he's one of our team leaders, no one can't deny that now.

Yes Rocwell, I'm sure.

I understand where your coming from. I have a hard time believing it as well, but then you see posts from Oldskool, iblastoff and others and you can just feel the hate. Matt52 just wrote that he hates Demar's game. Then these guys wonder why we call them haters...

[iblastoff]

Yes Rocwell, I'm sure.

I understand where your coming from. I have a hard time believing it as well, but then you see posts from Oldskool, iblastoff and others and you can just feel the hate. Matt52 just wrote that he hates Demar's game. Then these guys wonder why we call them haters...

You're STILL on it! Amazing. Simply amazing.

[CGarbs]

Thought I'd attempt to switch things up in this thread a bit:

I don't get to watch very many Raptors games(though follow religiously on my iphone when I can't watch), but I got to see the Raptors vs. Clippers game recently and saw things from Demar offensively I have never seen before! Demar had more of a point guard type hesitation dribble of which he was able to attack with in various ways as he faced up his defender, Also once he made his attack moves I noticed he was able to make some quick and low crossovers to shake up his attack angles. I saw this mainly in the 4th quarter as the Raps were trying to get back in it. My questions is: Has DeMar actually grown with his handles or was the Clipper defence just so soft that he could dribble more confidently than usual? Have any of you seen this development as well?

[blackjitsu]

I remember when the majority of people on RR were lukewarm about DeMar. There was a passionate minority of supporters like myself and a passionate minority that was strongly against. Now the majority is leaning towards the supporter side, but I don't think any of the arguments have changed. DeMar still may be better off as a 2nd scorer or 6th man, but what he has proven over the time that this forum has been debating his place is that the Raptors are better off with him on the roster than off. He came to a team in a city that felt like players never wanted to play for them and now plays on a team that mentions the city as a positive to US media. His impact on that aspect alone gives him more value here than elsewhere.

He's added a new wrinkle to his game every year. He beat out a player making twice as much as him as franchise leader. And he's doing things that the Raptors haven't seen since Chris Bosh. Bosh is the 3rd banana on the Heat, so the next step for him is to take the team further than any leader has. If he and Lowry can will the Raps into the 2nd round this year, next year the Knicks and Nets will not be getting younger. Who knows if the Bulls will rebuild, the Bucks are in a quagmire, even the Heat are getting long in the tooth.

Meanwhile, Ross should be averaging in the teens next year, Jonas should average a low double double, and if they can find the right PF so that Amir can come off the bench this could be a very deep team, for the next handful of years. Next step for DeMar will be getting more assists and dropping down his scoring a bit so that Ross can start to reach his potential. If he's capable of making that adjustment (I believe he is) then he will become a lot more efficient. If not, we can debate his role, but when you include media, PR, etc., to game play, contract cost, age and still potential to grow as a player I have a hard time finding a legitimate argument to remove him from the team for a player of less value.

DeMar's current value is: young All-Star on a manageable contract, playing a position that presently lacks depth, and team leader.

That's what you'd have to try to get equal or greater value than in a trade. Is he efficient? Hell NO! How many years has he honestly had the role he currently has? Not even one. This is the first season he hasn't been a 2nd fiddle to Bargs, or Gay. In his 1st year as the unquestionable 1st option he made the All-star game via coach vote. Put that beside him working with USA Basketball the past 2 off seasons and you start seeing a positive trend when it comes to league perception of his play (even though he didn't make USAB's final list of players).

Too many times us as fans are in a rush. We don't believe that people improve, we want success now. DeMar hasn't even come close to the age most players pique. In 2-3 seasons when Val, Ross, and DeMar are about to peak-- that's what we have to patiently wait for.

[planetmars]

I am happy for DD to make the all-star game. He seems to be genuine when he talks about the love for the city and the team. He has respect around the league and is really good (elite even) at getting to the line. He constantly works on his game and who doesn't like a gym rat? He's also not made of glass. This isn't the 80's or 90's where most teams had an elite level SG. He's only 24 years old as well.

DeRozan has been playing really well this year no question (well at least since the Gay trade).. what I feel is that he's not a great #1 option.. not for a championship caliber team. He's not paid as a superstar so he doesn't have to be a great #1 option.. but can he be a great #2 or #3 option?

That's a question that we may not be able to answer, not with this roster. His strength is on the offensive side so his usage rate needs to be fairly high. That's a concern for me. If he is asked not to be the primary scorer would he be able to modify his game to be the second banana? With his efficiency being a problem I wonder if it would still be a problem if someone else took the lead. DD played fairly poorly with Gay next to him so maybe that's a sign (although Gay and DD play a very similar game and so that might have something to do with it too). Although he played fairly poorly with Bargnani when he was the lead (although that's Bargnani).

The Raptors are not a contender so right now I am not too too worried about it.. but that worry will be there until I can see DD maturing some more and changing the way he plays. He has skills but I am not convinced that his basketball IQ is as good as it should be. Long two's are not the most ideal shot as we know and I'm sure he's been told that too but he keeps shooting them. He has the ability to post up his opponent but chooses not to. He has the ability to drive hard to the rim but chooses not to. All these concern me.

I have witnessed many years of failure for the Raptors and they have had some really good players. Creating a contender is difficult for sure.. but you need pieces that fit and if one piece (especially the main one) has flaws then that can backfire. It is important in my opinion to recognize those flaws and hope they can improve. If they do not I think it is good to consider other options.

I honestly think criticism is good. I also think praise is good. With DeMar I see some good with some bad. The bad concerns me and I hope he proves me wrong for the sake of the Raptors. Nothing would make me happier than to see the Raptors win it all. If DD is a part of the team when it happens, then his mug will probably be hanging on the wall of my basement. But until then I will voice my concerns when things don't look right. And if I think a guy like DD should be traded it is only because I think it would be better for the team long term. I'm not a GM just a fan. So my subjective opinion could easily be altered by someone else's point of view. And I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

[TSF]

You know what'd help demar? A three point threat at the 4. In the same way that Aldridge's midrange opens up the floor for everyone else, and helps create a lethal offence, I can see DD doing that here. That's why lineups with Patterson and DD are so intriguing.

I'd like to see him play beside a legitimate #1 on offence too. He's never been around one. I feel like could change his game though. Still get lots of touches, but less pressure to create offence. Cut out the long twos and a few bad iso plays. Not a comparison of talent, but that's what Wade did that made the Heat so successful, as did Bosh.

[mcHAPPY]

I'm feeling sarcasm lol. But it's okay.

No sarcasm at all.

[JawsGT]

It's the same old shit back and forth about Demar. The last 2+ pages of this thread is a result of pointing out that Demar was #7 on the MVP ladder, and then guys had to come point out the same stuff they have been pointing out all season, and even offseason, to undermine Demar's success. I'm far from a "blind loyalist" and if you read my posts on here you will notice that.

Everyone knows that Demar takes too many long 2's and doesn't play D as well as he should. This should come as no surprise to anyone. But using a statement of Demar's success as a lead in to bashing the guy is getting kinda stale, especially given the arguments generally remain the same, although no one can complain he doesn't rebound or get assists anymore.

Some of us just want to pat the guy on the back when he deserves it or point out the recognition Demar receives in the league. WTF is wrong with that, and why do these discussions have to degenerate into a Demar is good because, or Demar is bad because conversation?

Demar has his flaws, but they are far fewer than they were 4 seasons ago, and nobody would have expected him to be in the position he is now. And if all you can take from that is negativity, then I'm glad I don't know you in real life.

[Puffer]

Thought I'd attempt to switch things up in this thread a bit:

I don't get to watch very many Raptors games(though follow religiously on my iphone when I can't watch), but I got to see the Raptors vs. Clippers game recently and saw things from Demar offensively I have never seen before! Demar had more of a point guard type hesitation dribble of which he was able to attack with in various ways as he faced up his defender, Also once he made his attack moves I noticed he was able to make some quick and low crossovers to shake up his attack angles. I saw this mainly in the 4th quarter as the Raps were trying to get back in it. My questions is: Has DeMar actually grown with his handles or was the Clipper defence just so soft that he could dribble more confidently than usual? Have any of you seen this development as well?

To answer your question, his handles have definitely improved. I would say there is a distinct improvement from last year.

No qualifiers required, just a straight up yes.

[chrischris]

I bet most don't read the all things DD thread. Considering the lack of MVP status in Toronto, this is definitely worth it's own thread. I wouldnt have known he was #7 without this thread. Have we ever had someone do more than just slip into the top 10?

That being said, I think if DD can keep his stat line plus 1-2ppg AND the Raps hold 3rd in the East...I think DD hits the top 5. Or at least he should when you consider what a true MVP is and where the Raps are coming from.

[Marz]

I bet most don't read the all things DD thread.

Exactly. Thank you. I never understood this forum's affinity for lumping All Things About X into one thread. Then I have to sift through pages of stuff I may not be interested to find something like this.

So thank you for posting! I don't think DeRozan needs to improve his PPG, but if he ends the year close to 20-5-5 that would certainly put him in the top 5!

[mcHAPPY]

It's the same old shit back and forth about Demar. The last 2+ pages of this thread is a result of pointing out that Demar was #7 on the MVP ladder, and then guys had to come point out the same stuff they have been pointing out all season, and even offseason, to undermine Demar's success. I'm far from a "blind loyalist" and if you read my posts on here you will notice that.

Everyone knows that Demar takes too many long 2's and doesn't play D as well as he should. This should come as no surprise to anyone. But using a statement of Demar's success as a lead in to bashing the guy is getting kinda stale, especially given the arguments generally remain the same, although no one can complain he doesn't rebound or get assists anymore.

Some of us just want to pat the guy on the back when he deserves it or point out the recognition Demar receives in the league. WTF is wrong with that, and why do these discussions have to degenerate into a Demar is good because, or Demar is bad because conversation?

Demar has his flaws, but they are far fewer than they were 4 seasons ago, and nobody would have expected him to be in the position he is now. And if all you can take from that is negativity, then I'm glad I don't know you in real life.

Bold 1: Are you talking to me?

Because I'm finding this whole discussion too painful. There are posters who are stuck on old debates and have taken old conversations personally. Last summer/offseason was 6 months ago. A lot has certainly changed since then. The people who said he would improve, you were right. The people who said he is what he was, including me, you're wrong.

The old debate that he is one dimensional? Toast. He has taken his rebounding and assist rates to slightly above average levels. When it comes to assisting what is even more impressive is he has managed to up his assists while lowering his turnovers - especially since the start of January. His defensive, while still prone to brutal lapses, is no longer an eye sore.

The inefficiency discussion is still very much merited..... sorry. It really does amaze me how many die hard fans he has when his far too frequent, go-to move is a long 2 which is quite often contested and in the middle of the shot clock. However, do you think Wizards fans don't have criticism for Wall? Do you think Wolves fans aren't questioning Love's ability to lead a winner? Do you think Nets fans don't groan over Joe Johnson's and Deron Williams production relative to their max contracts? Do you think Cavs fans aren't questioning Irving's maturity and commitment to the team? Do you think Melo is above the scorn of Knicks fans?


Bold 2: If you want a thread where there can be only positive comments, I suggest starting a "Everything DeRozan Cheering ONLY" thread.


The discussion of DeRozan has changed yet it appears to me there are many posters who look at the handle of the person typing the post and turn off their reading comprehension skills. Personally speaking, my attitude towards DeMar has certainly shifted and changed. That doesn't mean I turn a blind eye to the faults I perceive in his game but nor does it mean I dismiss his contributions. The reality is he is a big part of a 28-24 team.... a team that many, myself included, thought would be at the bottom of the league. That team success is what has led him to being, quite deservedly, an all-star.

[BigCamB]

Has this thread been this crazy for all its 154 pages? :d

[drunkmunky]

5 years of development for a human being is pretty good. Just saying. There are a lot of dolts on here that have declined a lot in 5 years lol.

[Akkerman]

2 Things you have to respect about Demar:

1) His gym rat mentality and how he constantly improves every season we see him.

2) He's a great guy to have as the "face" of The Raptors, loves the city, popular, does lots of community work, and has had no off the court problems.

He seems like a great guy and as long as he keeps improving, he might by the end of it all have the best Raptor career of anyone.