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  • I like all of what you say, except Kyrie is not a superstar, nor is he elite.

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    • golden wrote: View Post
      Consider this…

      -------------Kyrie Irving..........Demar
      USG% ...... 28.9----------------- 28.3
      ORTG ........108------------------ 109
      DRTG .......110------------------- 105
      OWS ...... 3.6-------------------- 3.5
      DWS ...... 2.1-------------------- 1.0

      So Demar is performing as good as Kyrie Irving (superstar, elite, voted-in all-star) on the offensive end, and obliterates him on the defensive end.

      And this….

      List of players with USG% > 28, & ORTG > 108

      http://bkref.com/tiny/HgWqI

      Kevin Durant
      Lebron James
      Kevin Love
      Blake Griffin
      Steph Curry
      Paul George
      Carmelo Anthony
      Lamarcus Aldridge
      Demar Derozan
      Kyrie Irving

      That’s crème de la crème de la crème right there. Demar is right there with Aldridge, George and Irving, actually. And consider that Demar’s USG% is actually closer to 30% since the Gay trade, while increasing his ORTG, and it’s even more impressive.

      So really, what more needs to be said. Demar is currently playing like a bonafide all-star. Period. And there are lot of improvements, beyond stats, such as: body language, clutchness, leadership – and accomplishing all of that as a first option.

      I, for one, was on the fence about Demar going into this season and I’m simply ecstatic to be proven wrong. I have absolutely no qualms admitting I was wrong, wrong, wrong about Demar. Whoop dee doo. LOL. Not sure why more people don’t adopt this mindset, and let go of their previous debating stance. It’s like the old saying about marriage … “ it’s better to be happy than right.” You just gotta take those unexpected pleasant surprises whenever you can get them and feel good about it, IMO.
      WOW..... Good post.

      Comment


      • golden wrote: View Post
        Consider this…

        -------------Kyrie Irving..........Demar
        USG% ...... 28.9----------------- 28.3
        ORTG ........108------------------ 109
        DRTG .......110------------------- 105
        OWS ...... 3.6-------------------- 3.5
        DWS ...... 2.1-------------------- 1.0

        So Demar is performing as good as Kyrie Irving (superstar, elite, voted-in all-star) on the offensive end, and obliterates him on the defensive end.

        And this….

        List of players with USG% > 28, & ORTG > 108

        http://bkref.com/tiny/pjWar

        Kevin Durant
        Lebron James
        Kevin Love
        Blake Griffin
        Steph Curry
        Paul George
        Carmelo Anthony
        Lamarcus Aldridge
        Demar Derozan
        Kyrie Irving

        That’s crème de la crème de la crème right there. Demar is right there with Aldridge, George and Irving, actually. And consider that Demar’s USG% is actually closer to 30% since the Gay trade, while increasing his ORTG, and it’s even more impressive.

        So really, what more needs to be said. Demar is currently playing like a bonafide all-star. Period. And there are lot of improvements, beyond stats, such as: body language, clutchness, leadership – and accomplishing all of that as a first option.

        I, for one, was on the fence about Demar going into this season and I’m simply ecstatic to be proven wrong. I have absolutely no qualms admitting I was wrong, wrong, wrong about Demar. Whoop dee doo. LOL. Not sure why more people don’t adopt this mindset, and let go of their previous debating stance. It’s like the old saying about marriage … “ it’s better to be happy than right.” You just gotta take those unexpected pleasant surprises whenever you can get them and feel good about it, IMO.
        a little bit of cherry picking here.

        at almost 30% USG, hes not producing nearly as many win shares as he should. and i think everyone knows that kyrie hasn't been exactly all that great this year so that comparison kind of falls flat.

        kyle lowry only gets about 20% USG, yet produces nearly twice as many win shares as demar. take that USG% filter down to 20% and now you have (http://bkref.com/tiny/y5KlS)

        1 Kevin Durant
        2 LeBron James
        3 Kevin Love
        4 Blake Griffin
        5 Stephen Curry
        6 Kyle Lowry (who by the way has an insane ORTG of 120 which is Lebron/Love level)
        7 Paul George
        8 Dirk Nowitzk
        9 Goran Dragic
        10 Chris Paul
        ...
        ...
        ...

        you have to go all the way down to #19 to see where demar is.


        even with 20% USG, kyle produced 8.1 win shares, compared to only 5.6 by demar who gets 10% more USG.
        Last edited by iblastoff; Mon Feb 17, 2014, 02:33 AM.

        Comment


        • iblastoff wrote: View Post

          you have to go all the way down to #19 to see where demar is.

          This is where I have to make the same point I have been making. You have to go ALL the way down to #19. And this is WS right? win shares.. the Mighty god of advanced stats. The one stat that has one flaw, that is most brilliantly illustrated by one demar derozan. He's a high achiever on a low skill team. His team can't win, didn't win until lately. So be default his winshare total is always affected. (side note, this also shows us just how fantastic kyle Lowry has been this year...just a machine, how you don't have him resigned already I do not know...but thats another thread)

          But even with that said, ALL the way down.#19 is really, really good. When you're talking about a 24 year old guy who entered the NBA on NOTHING but potential, and has actually built off the potential, you take #19 and RUN. Hell, who is above him at his position there???? Harden? George? Curry (not really a 2). NOBODY ELSE IS ABOVE HIM!!!!

          I'd wager in 3 more full seasons, with Playoff experience, more time to grow, new coaches and players to learn from along the way, this guy will even be a tad higher than #19 on you list..... but guess what, he will STILL only cost you 9 million bucks.


          Guys are always going on and on about fiscal responsibility and the cap.... i ignore that stuff, but admit its important. So here you have the Golden Goose of cap friendly players, and you can read 30 pages of straight up demar Derozan anti fan club propaganda about how many shots he misses, how few rebounds he gets, and how he isn't an above average defender.

          I'm not sure how people can't connect the dots on this issue. Comparing him to a few other guys in the NBA that might be better, or close to better at a similar price is not the answer, because those guys are fucking valuable too, and the GM of whatever team they play on, he ain't letting them go.... it isn't how life works.

          derozan was a good draft pick, has been a slow but steady stock, and JUST THE TYPE OF GUY Masai ujiri is known to covet because of a safe return on a fair investment. Nobody here seems to mind Ujiri, nobody here minds good contracts, nobody here minds NBA allstars, nobody here minds derozans 7-10 Ft;s a night, or the foul trouble he creates for opposing bigs, bigs our starting center cannot handle yet, and nobody here minds DD's fantastic work ethic or team play, or his love for Toronto. They mind his FG% and his average defence.

          Thats a pretty lopsided argument, and really, a 3100 post thread to debate all that against two counter arguments is more than a little excessive. All insults, pettiness and unneeded negativity aside..... were really all looking a little ridiculous here, yours truly included.

          If there was anything I'd like to see from Demar, its just a bit more consistency, but that is improving everyday so im not terribly worried. I'd also like to see the offense itself change a bit and let DD operate from the high and low post more often like Kobe and MJ....he's mirrored a few of their moves, and I think he could do well there. bu Thats on Casey and his staff, as well, its a matter of that style fitting with the other guys on the floor.... other than that, derozan is a fantastic piece on this team moving forward, no doubt about it.
          Last edited by Superjudge; Mon Feb 17, 2014, 09:05 AM.

          Comment


          • It would be great to create two more DeRozan threads...the "Nothing But Positive Comments DeRozan Thread" and the "Nothing But Negative Comments DeRozan Thread" and then the pro and con arguments could go to their respective threads and the "Everything DeMar DeRozan" thread could be left with info and comments about his role on the team, his personal activities, comments about his performance in specific games etc.

            It won't happen, and I understand that, just sometimes...

            I think DeMar is performing very well for the team, in most aspects. I believe his game will continue to improve as he continues to grow as a player, and particular issues with his game, most notably efficiency, will be resolved over the next couple of seasons. I think to get an upgrade at his position would cost him, plus a significant asset. I don't believe DD is holding the Raps back from taking that next step. Teams focus needs to be backup center, and improved bench.

            Comment


            • Craig wrote: View Post
              This is where I have to make the same point I have been making. You have to go ALL the way down to #19. And this is WS right? win shares.. the Mighty god of advanced stats. The one stat that has one flaw, that is most brilliantly illustrated by one demar derozan. He's a high achiever on a low skill team. His team can't win, didn't win until lately. So be default his winshare total is always affected. (side note, this also shows us just how fantastic kyle Lowry has been this year...just a machine, how you don't have him resigned already I do not know...but thats another thread)

              But even with that said, ALL the way down.#19 is really, really good. When you're talking about a 24 year old guy who entered the NBA on NOTHING but potential, and has actually built off the potential, you take #19 and RUN. Hell, who is above him at his position there???? Harden? George? Curry (not really a 2). NOBODY ELSE IS ABOVE HIM!!!!

              I'd wager in 3 more full seasons, with Playoff experience, more time to grow, new coaches and players to learn from along the way, this guy will even be a tad higher than #19 on you list..... but guess what, he will STILL only cost you 9 million bucks.


              Guys are always going on and on about fiscal responsibility and the cap.... i ignore that stuff, but admit its important. So here you have the Golden Goose of cap friendly players, and you can read 30 pages of straight up demar Derozan anti fan club propaganda about how many shots he misses, how few rebounds he gets, and how he isn't an above average defender.

              I'm not sure how people can't connect the dots on this issue. Comparing him to a few other guys in the NBA that might be better, or close to better at a similar price is not the answer, because those guys are fucking valuable too, and the GM of whatever team they play on, he ain't letting them go.... it isn't how life works.

              derozan was a good draft pick, has been a slow but steady stock, and JUST THE TYPE OF GUY Masai ujiri is known to covet because of a safe return on a fair investment. Nobody here seems to mind Ujiri, nobody here minds good contracts, nobody here minds NBA allstars, nobody here minds derozans 7-10 Ft;s a night, or the foul trouble he creates for opposing bigs, bigs our starting center cannot handle yet, and nobody here minds DD's fantastic work ethic or team play, or his love for Toronto. They mind his FG% and his average defence.

              Thats a pretty lopsided argument, and really, a 3100 post thread to debate all that against two counter arguments is more than a little excessive. All insults, pettiness and unneeded negativity aside..... were really all looking a little ridiculous here, yours truly included.

              If there was anything I'd like to see from Demar, its just a bit more consistency, but that is improving everyday so im not terribly worried. I'd also like to see the offense itself change a bit and let DD operate from the high and low post more often like Kobe and MJ....he's mirrored a few of their moves, and I think he could do well there. bu Thats on Casey and his staff, as well, its a matter of that style fitting with the other guys on the floor.... other than that, derozan is a fantastic piece on this team moving forward, no doubt about it.
              Great post. Lots of good thoughts there.

              Regarding the bold I'd only point out that his 2016-17 year is a player option. If he continues to play like this he is only going to be on a $9.5M contract for 2 more seasons. He'll be unrestricted at that time if he declines the third year. The new CBA does not make extensions before reaching UFA beneficial for players - like what we're seeing this year with Lowry.

              Comment


              • I'll still take it. Ignorance is bliss.



                Party on Garth!

                Comment


                • Puffer wrote: View Post
                  It would be great to create two more DeRozan threads...the "Nothing But Positive Comments DeRozan Thread" and the "Nothing But Negative Comments DeRozan Thread" and then the pro and con arguments could go to their respective threads and the "Everything DeMar DeRozan" thread could be left with info and comments about his role on the team, his personal activities, comments about his performance in specific games etc.

                  It won't happen, and I understand that, just sometimes...

                  I think DeMar is performing very well for the team, in most aspects. I believe his game will continue to improve as he continues to grow as a player, and particular issues with his game, most notably efficiency, will be resolved over the next couple of seasons. I think to get an upgrade at his position would cost him, plus a significant asset. I don't believe DD is holding the Raps back from taking that next step. Teams focus needs to be backup center, and improved bench.
                  hahahhaa I like it.

                  You should see what I have to say about him when they are losing hahahaa

                  the bipolarity of fanaticism is what brings us back...we can either hate, or love without regret!

                  if only our partners would allow such behaviour!!!

                  Comment


                  • golden wrote: View Post
                    Consider this…

                    -------------Kyrie Irving..........Demar
                    USG% ...... 28.9----------------- 28.3
                    ORTG ........108------------------ 109
                    DRTG .......110------------------- 105
                    OWS ...... 3.6-------------------- 3.5
                    DWS ...... 2.1-------------------- 1.0

                    So Demar is performing as good as Kyrie Irving (superstar, elite, voted-in all-star) on the offensive end, and obliterates him on the defensive end.

                    And this….

                    List of players with USG% > 28, & ORTG > 108

                    http://bkref.com/tiny/HgWqI

                    Kevin Durant
                    Lebron James
                    Kevin Love
                    Blake Griffin
                    Steph Curry
                    Paul George
                    Carmelo Anthony
                    Lamarcus Aldridge
                    Demar Derozan
                    Kyrie Irving

                    That’s crème de la crème de la crème right there. Demar is right there with Aldridge, George and Irving, actually. And consider that Demar’s USG% is actually closer to 30% since the Gay trade, while increasing his ORTG, and it’s even more impressive.

                    So really, what more needs to be said. Demar is currently playing like a bonafide all-star. Period. And there are lot of improvements, beyond stats, such as: body language, clutchness, leadership – and accomplishing all of that as a first option.

                    I, for one, was on the fence about Demar going into this season and I’m simply ecstatic to be proven wrong. I have absolutely no qualms admitting I was wrong, wrong, wrong about Demar. Whoop dee doo. LOL. Not sure why more people don’t adopt this mindset, and let go of their previous debating stance. It’s like the old saying about marriage … “ it’s better to be happy than right.” You just gotta take those unexpected pleasant surprises whenever you can get them and feel good about it, IMO.
                    If you remove the restriction of ORtg at 108 you only get 15 players: http://bkref.com/tiny/MA0B1

                    I'm really not trying to disparage DeRozan here. I just think stating the 'creme de la creme' is a bit misleading when it comes to Griffin, Love, Durant, LBJ, and Curry. They are all rocking an ORtg of at least 7 higher.

                    But no doubt the company is impressive.

                    Comment


                    • iblastoff wrote: View Post
                      a little bit of cherry picking here.

                      at almost 30% USG, hes not producing nearly as many win shares as he should. and i think everyone knows that kyrie hasn't been exactly all that great this year so that comparison kind of falls flat.

                      kyle lowry only gets about 20% USG, yet produces nearly twice as many win shares as demar. take that USG% filter down to 20% and now you have (http://bkref.com/tiny/y5KlS)

                      1 Kevin Durant
                      2 LeBron James
                      3 Kevin Love
                      4 Blake Griffin
                      5 Stephen Curry
                      6 Kyle Lowry (who by the way has an insane ORTG of 120 which is Lebron/Love level)
                      7 Paul George
                      8 Dirk Nowitzk
                      9 Goran Dragic
                      10 Chris Paul
                      ...
                      ...
                      ...

                      you have to go all the way down to #19 to see where demar is.


                      even with 20% USG, kyle produced 8.1 win shares, compared to only 5.6 by demar who gets 10% more USG.
                      Agree 100%. Lowry should be an all-star too. Everybody knows that. Raps have 2 legit all-stars. Deal with it folks. And that means enjoying it, even if all those years of failure, disappointment and rejection have made Rap fans so emotionally damaged that they've forgetten how to enjoy success. You'll get the hang of it. LOL.

                      EDIT: Just clicked on that BB-REF link from iblastoff. Demar "WAY DOWN THERE at #19 in WS" is ahead of: Bosh, Wade, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Millsap, Wall, Cousins, Irving, Randolph, etc..., etc... You get the picture. LOL
                      Last edited by golden; Mon Feb 17, 2014, 10:38 AM.

                      Comment


                      • I wonder what we'll all talk about if Demar ever gets traded or signs elsewhere....
                        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                        Comment


                        • Guess what? My revelation: DeMar could be All-NBA and a legit first scoring option!

                          DeMar DeRozan

                          Much like Western Conference first-timer Stephen Curry, DeRozan made his first All Star team by maintaining his level of play as his Usage Rate increased significantly. Playing a career high 37.7 minutes per game, DeRozan has seen his Usage Rate jump from 24.1% last year to 28.3% this season.



                          How does a shooting guard increase his Usage Rate and play at an All Star level? Spend more time in the high value shot zones.

                          DeRozan has upped his Free Throw Rate to 0.401 this season, earning frequent trips to the most valuable shooting zone on the floor. He is second in the East in FTAs per game at 7.3, behind only the 7.6 FTAs that LeBron James earns. James Harden leads all perimeter players with 8.8 FTAs per game.

                          He also finds his way to another high value shot zone. After taking only 44 Left Corner 3s through his first four seasons, DeRozan has already attempted 50 LC3s through 50 games this season, making them at a 42% clip. He is finding success in the Right Corner as well, though not as often, making 9-of-18 RC3 attempts. Overall, his 30 Corner 3s this season tops his career total of 29 entering this season.




                          http://stats.nba.com/featured/firstt...014_02_16.html


                          No one, absolutely no one question DeRozan's improvements over his 5 years in the league. No one.

                          I don't think anyone can question his work ethic or desire to be great either. I certainly won't and never have.

                          I recall typing last summer if he could become average in assists, defense, and rebounding that would certainly quiet my criticism of one dimensional - guess what? He's done that. No more complaints.


                          However, the criticism I have that remains is his inefficiency and his shot selection. The inefficiency is a reality. I'm going to provide the links, you can go look yourself. You can also watch the games and look at the number of contested long 2s with plenty of time on the shot clock.

                          http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...hooting-guards
                          http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...tingEfficiency
                          http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players...esc&player_ids[]=1287&player_ids[]=128&player_ids[]=215&player_ids[]=158&player_ids[]=211&player_ids[]=1309&player_ids[]=318&player_ids[]=63&player_ids[]=243&player_ids[]=167&player_ids[]=229&player_ids[]=38&player_ids[]=3&player_ids[]=348&player_ids[]=228&player_ids[]=185&player_ids[]=470&player_ids[]=273&player_ids[]=163&player_ids[]=113&player_ids[]=334&player_ids[]=116&player_ids[]=92&player_ids[]=310&season=2013&sort=per48_field_goal_attempts&utf8=%E2%9C%93#shooting[/url]
                          http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players...%93&player_ids[]=318&season=2013

                          His FG%, 3pt%, eFG%, TS%, adjFG%, and PPS are all average to pretty bad. It really stands out when you consider he takes 18.2 field goal attempts per game - that is first in the league for SGs with Beal 2nd at 16.1 attempts.


                          His shot selection is the height of inefficiency and, besides inconsistent defensive effort, this is what my only gripe against DeRozan is. He takes about 35% of his shots from 16-24 feet and it is his #1 most frequent shot type. Harden, as an example, takes 16-24 ft shots as his 3rd most frequent shot (85 attempts on year compared to 82 attempts for 8-16ft shots) which is about 12% of his shot attempts. That means that 75% of Hardens shots are a 3 or within 8 feet. (you can play around with different players at stats.nba.com to get an idea of their shot totals by selecting player and then selecting shooting in the first field).

                          There is nothing wrong with taking a long 2. My gripe is when he takes them. Receive a pass with the shot clock running down? Sure take it. Get the ball off good team movement and you're wide open? Sure take it. However take it with over half the shot clock remaining and a man in your face? NO! Hold the ball for 5 seconds, then take 5-6 dribbles, and then take a long 2? NO!



                          Call me a hater, call me what you will. But I hate long 2s. It is boring, lazy, selfish basketball, in my opinion. Anyone can get take a long 2 at any time.... and there is a reason for that.

                          This brings me to what I put in originally at the start of this post. DeRozan still makes poor decisions on shot attempts (to be fair this is on Casey as well) despite his improvements this year. However, just imagine if he took more post ups, corner 3s, and drives to the basket instead of contested long 2s with time on the shot clock? He would be All-NBA - no joke. If he can consistently put up the 4-5 rebounds and 4-5 assists while increasing his efficiency, in particular his PPS, he is going to be All-NBA.


                          So that is what I pray he and the coaches finally figure out. All the other criticisms are out the window. Inefficiency, which is directly related to consistency and decision making, is all that remains.

                          There has been lots of talk that he is not a first scoring option. You know what? I'd rethink that. I think he can be a legit #1 scoring option. He just needs to redistribute his shots and improve his decisions with the ball.

                          Comment


                          • Axel wrote: View Post
                            I wonder what we'll all talk about if Demar ever gets traded or signs elsewhere....
                            Jonas's clunky post moves, "childish behaviour" and flying elbows? Doesn't quite seem as dramatic as this never ending discussion does it.

                            As for the Win Shares discussion , agreed with those who pointed out that Demar " all the way down" at 19th is still pretty damn good I would've thought lol.

                            Comment


                            • Whenever I look at those shot charts, I immediately think red = good; "he's on fire!" and then after immediate excitement realize that it's backwards. Even though I know green is good, every damn time.
                              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                              Comment


                              • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                No one, absolutely no one question DeRozan's improvements over his 5 years in the league. No one.

                                I don't think anyone can question his work ethic or desire to be great either. I certainly won't and never have.

                                I recall typing last summer if he could become average in assists, defense, and rebounding that would certainly quiet my criticism of one dimensional - guess what? He's done that. No more complaints.


                                However, the criticism I have that remains is his inefficiency and his shot selection. The inefficiency is a reality. I'm going to provide the links, you can go look yourself. You can also watch the games and look at the number of contested long 2s with plenty of time on the shot clock.

                                http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...hooting-guards
                                http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...tingEfficiency
                                http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players...esc&player_ids[]=1287&player_ids[]=128&player_ids[]=215&player_ids[]=158&player_ids[]=211&player_ids[]=1309&player_ids[]=318&player_ids[]=63&player_ids[]=243&player_ids[]=167&player_ids[]=229&player_ids[]=38&player_ids[]=3&player_ids[]=348&player_ids[]=228&player_ids[]=185&player_ids[]=470&player_ids[]=273&player_ids[]=163&player_ids[]=113&player_ids[]=334&player_ids[]=116&player_ids[]=92&player_ids[]=310&season=2013&sort=per48_field_goal_attempts&utf8=%E2%9C%93#shooting[/url]
                                http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players...%93&player_ids[]=318&season=2013

                                His FG%, 3pt%, eFG%, TS%, adjFG%, and PPS are all average to pretty bad. It really stands out when you consider he takes 18.2 field goal attempts per game - that is first in the league for SGs with Beal 2nd at 16.1 attempts.


                                His shot selection is the height of inefficiency and, besides inconsistent defensive effort, this is what my only gripe against DeRozan is. He takes about 35% of his shots from 16-24 feet and it is his #1 most frequent shot type. Harden, as an example, takes 16-24 ft shots as his 3rd most frequent shot (85 attempts on year compared to 82 attempts for 8-16ft shots) which is about 12% of his shot attempts. That means that 75% of Hardens shots are a 3 or within 8 feet. (you can play around with different players at stats.nba.com to get an idea of their shot totals by selecting player and then selecting shooting in the first field).

                                There is nothing wrong with taking a long 2. My gripe is when he takes them. Receive a pass with the shot clock running down? Sure take it. Get the ball off good team movement and you're wide open? Sure take it. However take it with over half the shot clock remaining and a man in your face? NO! Hold the ball for 5 seconds, then take 5-6 dribbles, and then take a long 2? NO!



                                Call me a hater, call me what you will. But I hate long 2s. It is boring, lazy, selfish basketball, in my opinion. Anyone can get take a long 2 at any time.... and there is a reason for that.

                                This brings me to what I put in originally at the start of this post. DeRozan still makes poor decisions on shot attempts (to be fair this is on Casey as well) despite his improvements this year. However, just imagine if he took more post ups, corner 3s, and drives to the basket instead of contested long 2s with time on the shot clock? He would be All-NBA - no joke. If he can consistently put up the 4-5 rebounds and 4-5 assists while increasing his efficiency, in particular his PPS, he is going to be All-NBA.


                                So that is what I pray he and the coaches finally figure out. All the other criticisms are out the window. Inefficiency, which is directly related to consistency and decision making, is all that remains.

                                There has been lots of talk that he is not a first scoring option. You know what? I'd rethink that. I think he can be a legit #1 scoring option. He just needs to redistribute his shots and improve his decisions with the ball.
                                I don't think you're a hater at all. But I do think that there might be more to the "why" part of those shots. One thing I almost never see from Toronto is plays run for either Ross or DD from the posts, or coming off screens at the elbow. Now I admit, I am not always specifically looking for that, I have done my time with that stuff and like to simply enjoy watching, but rarely do I see a simple, feet set, off the screen jumper. ross has a few here and there, but they don't seem to want to force that.

                                Maybe teams take it away... but I can't see that as they have to get burned a few times before they start to take it away. I can't help but think that it isn't Derozans ability to make shots, its the way he's getting them. Clearly he takes a little blame, if he didn't he would be perfect and Toronto would never lose.... so he has a large par in it, but watching Toronto's offence, I just don't see much run in the way of plays to focus on maximizing high percentage jumpers. Sure a high quality guy should be able to make his own shot, but he shouldn't have to ALWAYS do it.

                                Anyhow. DD makes me feel that feeling you get when you find a really good buy in a second hand store. Like Walking out with a Canali Suit you bought for $50..... it just feels good.

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