Everything Derozan

[stooley]

woops double post. browser glitch

[3inthekeon]

Yep this website: http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/pl.../2013-2014-REG

Thanks, but I can't find it. Where does it say what the average is for shots from the left corner? I see it for individuals and teams, but not the league average.

[Puffer]

... It's also easier to get the look from mid-range.

This is something I have noticed in the last 10-12 games while I've been looking for it. He is rarely taking a contested shot from there. Maybe everyone is sagging off him because it's a "low efficiency" shot. Well, if he is good at making them from there, and they are giving them up, go for it. If they start coming out to contest, his increased assist numbers might go up even further.

[OldSkoolCool]

1. Nice.

2. Well you mentioned that LA adds more to his team's success because he performs more isos and post ups, whereas Demar generally gets the ball coming off of picks.

To counter that argument, I may have overstated to what extent LA relies on the pick and roll/pop. Nevertheless, Lamarcus Aldridge scores more points than any other player in the league on pick and pops, and is one of the top 5 most frequently used roll men. So I don't think your point holds any water there.

Either way, he's doing a lot more of those two things than Demar is.

I'm not discounting LA's role in PnR situations, and since Portland runs a ton of them so I'm not surprised that he is a league leader in this category.

BUT, considering that nearly 80% of his production is coming from areas outside of the PnR...to say that the majority of his impact is out of the iso/post (what I originally said) holds no water is pretty narrow.

Really the Blazers do a great job of using him

[MACK11]

You get more open shots from midrange because that's what the defense wants a player to shoot against them

[Puffer]

You get more open shots from midrange because that's what the defense wants a player to shoot against them

Exactly. And if you are hitting them at a high rate, take all you can get.

[stooley]

I'm not discounting LA's role in PnR situations, and since Portland runs a ton of them so I'm not surprised that he is a league leader in this category.

BUT, considering that nearly 80% of his production is coming from areas outside of the PnR...to say that the majority of his impact is out of the iso/post (what I originally said) holds no water is pretty narrow.

Really the Blazers do a great job of using him

Well, he scores 80% of his points outside of the pick and pop. I'd think he gets more out of the pick and roll, since its generally run more, but maybe not.

So let's say he's 40-50% pick and roll/pop.

Demar is guaranteed less than that, considering the stats that imamshumpert posted.

I said your statement that:

LA's mid range game draws people out of the paint...DD's packs it (sort of)

LA's mid range is out of ISO's and draws more doubles, also operates out of the post quite a bit...DD's are off of set screens and don't rotate the D as much.

holds no water.

[OldSkoolCool]

Well, he scores 80% of his points outside of the pick and pop. I believe he gets more out of the pick and roll.

So let's say he's 50% pick and roll/pop.

Demar is guaranteed less than that, considering the stats that imamshumpert posted.

I said your statement that:

holds no water.

Considering that he rarely rolls...you are just making up that he is producing 30% of his offense off of rolls...I will give you a total of about 30% between the combined pop/roll, which still leaves 70% out of the ISO/post.

This means that my statement of him operating mainly out of the post/iso and drawing a different defensive look than DD, who gets his off of mainly pin down screens holds a hell of a lot more water than what you are saying

[imanshumpert]

Nobody is arguing about what his shooting % are. The point is that he should be able to shoot 3's at a much higher %, given the % he is shooting from 0-2' inside the line. I have no idea how to explain why he drops off so much behind the arc, other than perhaps it being a mental thing or lack of practice (in games).

So should Dwyane Wade, but he doesn't either. Some players just never extend their range past that long-two. Not saying DeRozan won't, but right now it's not there so he shouldn't be shooting many of those shots.

And you don't know what percentage he's shooting from 0-2' inside the line (it's actually probably quite low if anything), nor do you know how many of those shots he takes. What we do know is that he shoots 41.3% from 16-23 feet, the bulk of which come from the 16-20 foot range, which is not 0-2' inside the line. If you don't believe me then look at his shot chart on this page:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2014/

I'm not ripping on him, I'm actually doing the opposite, in that I think with more in-game attempts from behind the arc he should be able to raise that % and gain confidence (hopefully leading to further % increases). As I stated in my original post, he wouldn't even have to match his % to score the same number of points but, if he were able to accomplish that, he'd exceed his scoring on those long shots by 50%.

I don't understand how shooting more threes would increase his percentage, but sure.

You're basing your analysis on his current shooting %, so I totally understand how you reached your conclusion. Even as somebody who has criticized DeRozan's shooting efficiency and lack of 3pt shot in the past, I'm actually giving him the benefit of the doubt that he can raise those %.

You don't raise your three point percentage by shooting more threes in games. You raise it by practicing your three point shot in the offseason. Since DeRozan is a poor three point shooter from the top and wings right now, it doesn't make sense for him to begin exchanging his long-2s (which he shoots at above average efficiency) for those threes that he's piss poor at.

I'm also not suggesting he stop shooting mid-long 2's or even all long 2's. However, it would benefit him and the team if he could make a minor modification, to turn some of the longest 2's into 3's. For example, at least a few times a game (per my eye test at least), he executes an elbow catch-and-shoot from on the 3pt line or within 1' of it and/or he executes a pull-up shot from a similar position off his own dribble. All he needs to do is position himself a foot deeper and suddenly he puts himself in a position to improve his efficiency further.

This does not happen "a few times per game". But if that's what you see then fine, I'm yet to find a site that shows shot attempts by-the-foot so until then it's just your word vs. mine.

[MixxAOR]

Kyle Lowry was shooting .257 .246 .276 .272 from three point line in his early 4 years. So now he's shooting it from respectable .362 So it can be done.

[Scraptor]

This does not happen "a few times per game". But if that's what you see then fine, I'm yet to find a site that shows shot attempts by-the-foot so until then it's just your word vs. mine.

Derozan has shot 80/208 from 20-24ft and 13/52 from 25-29ft per nba.com. He has taken 50/166 from 3point land. Therefore he has taken 260-166 = 94 shots from 20 ft or greater that are not 3s. He has also taken 135/328 from 15ft-19ft. If there's a roughly even distribution by feet, then that's about 66 shots per foot. So if we say 19ft or greater is close enough to step out, that's about 160 shots, or about 3 shots per game (2.8 to be exact).

I don't understand how shooting more threes would increase his percentage, but sure.

Even shooting 3s at a 30% rate equals expected value of .9 pts per shot. Using the above math, 93 - 50 = 43 makes out of 94 from beyond 20 feet. Toss in the 19footers 27/66 and you've got 70/160 = 0.875 expected value. So his TS% would go up a hair with more threes.

But I do think if he was shooting more threes, like 5-6 a game, he'd be more comfortable with it and it would help improve his percentage a little too. I think right now he still has a voice in his head telling him to protect his percentages, because if he has more than a split second to take the shot he puts the ball on the floor. When he's forced to shoot it he just goes ahead and does it.

[3inthekeon]

Curry is not a corner shooter....those are his weakest areas, whereas the corners are the strongest areas for DeMar.

Personally I hate DD's shot chart...so ugly

Look at Ross', that is a nice shot chart with good percentages and high attempts at the three...a dead zone in the long two range with this area being his range of fewest attempts...and then free throw line and in he is gold with higher amount of attempts again. That is what our wings should be striving for.

Curry led the league last year shooting 52.8% from the corners

http://www.bsports.com/statsinsights...e-nba-baseline

[stooley]

Considering that he rarely rolls...you are just making up that he is producing 30% of his offense off of rolls...I will give you a total of about 30% between the combined pop/roll, which still leaves 70% out of the ISO/post.

This means that my statement of him operating mainly out of the post/iso and drawing a different defensive look than DD, who gets his off of mainly pin down screens holds a hell of a lot more water than what you are saying

Dude cmon how is this still even a discussion. He's number 6 in number of pick and rolls operated in the entire league. I'm not even sure how were still having this discussion. The evidence has been presented, and LA is a player who generates a huge percentage of his plays out of picks.

You can make other arguments that DD isn't as effective. But this point is moot.

[stooley]

OldSKoolCool: reread this post carefully. It is a necessary fact that LA generates more of his points out of pick and rolls than DD.

Aldridge isn't "all" pick and pop, but compared to other players he is. This is a somewhat old article (Feb 5th, 2014), but he scores more from the pick and pop than any other player in the league. Your evaluation of one game isn't adequate.



http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/ta...arcus-aldridge

Also there's this:



It's from SportsVu, saw it on another site. But as you can see Aldridge uses the pick and roll more than any roll/pop man not named Dirk. Additionally, DeRozan is the 2nd most efficient pick and roll ball-handler in terms of PTS/Poss in the league. Found that to be interesting.

[BigCamB]

DeRozan doesn't even need to be good at 3's from the non corners, just merely mediocre (30 ish%) and replacing some of those super long twos will make him a more efficient player. He has got better every year, let's hope next season will be the one he makes the step from out there