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  • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
    Oh I say "hater" totally tongue in cheek.

    It was after all many posters here who labeled anyone who criticized DD's game as a "hater".

    I've just rolled with it and the fact it has caught on as it has is quite telling of the "fanboys" delusions.
    Oh I totally agree, I just love that it's now official. Haha

    But ya, you've been the highest profile victim of the Hater tag by far. I'm likely the highest profile victim of the 'fanboy' tag, even if no one actually calls me one to my face. Haha

    Comment


    • DanH wrote: View Post
      DD for TPE. TPE for Barnes. Problem solved.
      Masai would never trade Demar for a TPE. And rightfully so, that would be turrible.
      Barnes is no where near the player that Demar is. At least with Thompson coming back, there is some value realized.

      Comment


      • stooley wrote: View Post
        It's not talent that makes a team better, but the value that that talent brings to the team. I just feel like having a really good backup 2, who doesn't necessarily fit that well as a 6th man, instant offence, is wasting talent.
        I like this quote.

        When I look at this team I see a desperate need for ability to penetrate and get to the rim off the dribble and be able to pass off that penetration. That is the type of player we could use as the sixth man and not Ross. Who will struggle off the bench like his entire rookie campaign

        Hence why I think a player like Waiters could be extremely valuable to the Raps.

        Joey wrote: View Post
        Masai would never trade Demar for a TPE. And rightfully so, that would be turrible.
        Barnes is no where near the player that Demar is. At least with Thompson coming back, there is some value realized.
        Ok this sounds kind of crazy....but would a DD + 20th for Iggy be even remotely possible?

        Because that would be an incredible win for Toronto

        Comment


        • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
          Don't go suggesting any trade that brings back less than the entire starting All-NBA team. People around here will accept nothing less in a trade.


          FWIW, I think DD has much more value, or at least he should, than Barnes.
          Getting tired of your snarky remarks.

          People have a problem with DeRozan being traded for marginal talent or risky draft picks with < 15% chance of returning even an all-star caliber player.

          You trade DeMar if there's a great chance that what you're getting in return is going to be more beneficial to the team than he is in the long run. Trades like Barnes, Waiters, Deng, etc don't really achieve that... like at all.

          Comment


          • Joey wrote: View Post
            Oh I totally agree, I just love that it's now official. Haha

            But ya, you've been the highest profile victim of the Hater tag by far. I'm likely the highest profile victim of the 'fanboy' tag, even if no one actually calls me one to my face. Haha
            I do recall you criticising him once during a game thread and me being absolutely shocked by it and giving you some snarky comment like " wow, that'd have to be a first"

            Comment


            • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
              I like this quote.

              When I look at this team I see a desperate need for ability to penetrate and get to the rim off the dribble and be able to pass off that penetration. That is the type of player we could use as the sixth man and not Ross. Who will struggle off the bench like his entire rookie campaign

              Hence why I think a player like Waiters could be extremely valuable to the Raps.



              Ok this sounds kind of crazy....but would a DD + 20th for Iggy be even remotely possible?

              Because that would be an incredible win for Toronto
              DD + our pick for Iggy? Who would score points for us?

              Comment


              • Joey wrote: View Post
                Masai would never trade Demar for a TPE. And rightfully so, that would be turrible.
                Barnes is no where near the player that Demar is. At least with Thompson coming back, there is some value realized.
                He's not trading him for a TPE, he's trading him for Barnes by utilizing TOR's and GSW's TPE's. Sure, it would be great if they wanted to send back Draymond Green or Klay Thompson, but there's no way Thompson comes back in a DD trade. Why the heck would GSW do that?

                Is Barnes and Green a better deal? I have no interest in Speights, and they don't need him in there for cap reasons. With Barnes and Green, we've got our wing rotation locked down (Ross, Barnes, Green, GV occasionally) for the foreseeable future, for less cost than we currently do with DD, leaving more room to improve the frontcourt (backup C in particular).
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

                Comment


                • I don't get this obsession with trading with the warriors. Why would they want DeRozan ( or Ross for that matter) for Barnes and Green or whoever when they already have Klay at the two who they are very high on, Iggy plays some 2 and they have decent bench options at the position as well.

                  Comment


                  • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                    I like this quote.

                    When I look at this team I see a desperate need for ability to penetrate and get to the rim off the dribble and be able to pass off that penetration. That is the type of player we could use as the sixth man and not Ross. Who will struggle off the bench like his entire rookie campaign

                    Hence why I think a player like Waiters could be extremely valuable to the Raps.
                    Yeah Waiters could be valuable to the Raps or any team really in a 6th man role potentially. My issue was trading DeRozan for Waiters, which is a net negative and makes no sense. Why would you trade a player with proven all-star caliber value as a starter for a guy that you think will be a good scorer/ball-handler off the bench? It defies all logic.

                    A trade of Ross for Waiters on the other hand could be interesting depending on our other personnel, but as our team currently sits I wouldn't take that deal if Cleveland offered it.


                    Ok this sounds kind of crazy....but would a DD + 20th for Iggy be even remotely possible?

                    Because that would be an incredible win for Toronto
                    First of all let's just clear up the fact that the Warriors wouldn't make this trade. DeRozan is not a SF, he's a SG so they'd be creating a controversy at that position. Unless for some reason they decided they want to use DeRozan off the bench, but why trade Iguodala to do that.

                    Second of all that's not a good trade for us. Let's not even talk about skill first, let's just look at the intangibles here:
                    - Iguodala is already 30 years old, while DeRozan is 24
                    - Iguodala is owed about $35M over the next 3 years, whereas DeRozan is owed about 28.5M over the next 3 (PO in last year)
                    - Iguodala is only going to get worse at this point, while DeRozan still has room for growth and won't hit his prime for another 3 years.

                    Ok so now that that's covered, that's already more than enough reason not to do the trade but let's continue:

                    - DeRozan is a better playmaker than Iguodala. I'm going to start with this because it's the most "shocking" but it's also true. DeRozan has a slightly higher assist rate (18.9% compared to 18.2%) but combines that with a SIGNIFICANTLY lower turnover rate (9.5% compared to 16.2%). Additionally DeRozan is the 2nd best pick and roll ball handler in the league in terms of points per possession (after Dragic) http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/0...ikes-the-suns/. They mention that the data is a little bit strange because DeRozan does not actually shoot the ball well out of the pick and roll for example, but nevertheless those are the numbers.

                    - DeRozan is a vastly superior scorer. Iguodala handles a very marginal scoring role in Golden State (7 shots per game) and as a result he is quite efficient, but I'm not sure that replacing DeRozan with that would help our team. It would leave us with zero players who command double teams, and while it sounds cool to say we can just redistribute DeMar's 18 shots amongst Ross, Jonas, et al, it's not a reality. Having a volume scorer like DeMar is very beneficial to our team.

                    - I'm actually not seeing any benefit to making this trade other than the fact that Iguodala is a superior defender, but for what we're losing on offence it doesn't make sense. Additionally we're taking on more long-term salary, losing our draft pick and ensuring that we don't make it past the 1st/2nd round for the next 3 seasons. Oh and we'd also be pretty much guaranteeing that Kyle leaves too so that helps. It's a stupid, treadmill move that I'd expect Colangelo to make.

                    Comment


                    • rocwell wrote: View Post
                      DD + our pick for Iggy? Who would score points for us?
                      Don't worry just take DeMar's shots. Let Iggy take 10 then add 5 to Val's shot attempts and 3 to Ross'. Bam! Problem solved. /sarcasm

                      Comment


                      • imanshumpert wrote: View Post
                        Getting tired of your snarky remarks.

                        People have a problem with DeRozan being traded for marginal talent or risky draft picks with < 15% chance of returning even an all-star caliber player.

                        You trade DeMar if there's a great chance that what you're getting in return is going to be more beneficial to the team than he is in the long run. Trades like Barnes, Waiters, Deng, etc don't really achieve that... like at all.
                        *yawn*

                        I think that sums up my feelings right now.

                        I have a feeling others would agree.

                        *yawn*

                        I need some fresh air.

                        Comment


                        • rocwell wrote: View Post
                          DD + our pick for Iggy? Who would score points for us?
                          Well we would get Iggy's 15ppg so we really only need to find 6 more points from a combined Ross+Val+Patterson+Vasquez+Amir so I really don't think scoring would be a problem. And Iggy's ability to move the ball around would make things so much easier for Lowry. Also defensively we would be a FORCE

                          BigCamB wrote: View Post
                          I don't get this obsession with trading with the warriors. Why would they want DeRozan ( or Ross for that matter) for Barnes and Green or whoever when they already have Klay at the two who they are very high on, Iggy plays some 2 and they have decent bench options at the position as well.
                          I agree. No reason to see the Warriors bringing in DD for anyone since they have the splash bros

                          But we can BS

                          Comment


                          • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                            Well we would get Iggy's 15ppg so we really only need to find 6 more points from a combined Ross+Val+Patterson+Vasquez+Amir so I really don't think scoring would be a problem. And Iggy's ability to move the ball around would make things so much easier for Lowry. Also defensively we would be a FORCE



                            I agree. No reason to see the Warriors bringing in DD for anyone since they have the splash bros

                            But we can BS
                            You can't just "get" Iggy's 15ppg. First of all he doesn't even score 15ppg he scores 9. The last time Iggy averaged that many points was in 2010. Not saying he can't score, but at this point he's just not a scorer at all, he's a role player/utility guy and actually very overpaid for his production.

                            I think some of these trade suggestions are more about getting rid of DeRozan for something new than actually improving the team.

                            Comment


                            • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                              Well we would get Iggy's 15ppg so we really only need to find 6 more points from a combined Ross+Val+Patterson+Vasquez+Amir so I really don't think scoring would be a problem. And Iggy's ability to move the ball around would make things so much easier for Lowry. Also defensively we would be a FORCE



                              I agree. No reason to see the Warriors bringing in DD for anyone since they have the splash bros

                              But we can BS
                              For sure, all part of the forum experience!

                              Comment


                              • imanshumpert wrote: View Post
                                You can't just "get" Iggy's 15ppg. First of all he doesn't even score 15ppg he scores 9. The last time Iggy averaged that many points was in 2010. Not saying he can't score, but at this point he's just not a scorer at all, he's a role player/utility guy and actually very overpaid for his production.

                                I think some of these trade suggestions are more about getting rid of DeRozan for something new than actually improving the team.
                                If by "role player" you mean literally the best wing stopper in the game, then yes, he's a role player. He's the perfect 3+D, except he also brings good playmaking (last year was the first time in 8 years he's had an assist rate lower than DD's breakout assist rate this year, and he was playing in an offense dominated by a superstar PG).

                                Personally, for me Iggy is a bit old for the long term growth of this club, but IF the team made a deal that was effectively DD for Iggy, they would definitely improve. Heck, just look at how much better GSW were with Iggy versus without him.

                                As for the obsession of trading with GSW, I just saw someone suggest a trade with them for Ross, and mentioned that DD would be a better piece to trade. There's lots of places I'd be happy seeing DD traded to.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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