Everything Derozan

[Bear]

Its all there for you to see. You can see exactly who Demar tried out against, and who he was selected over.

but not who declined to participate for whatever reason, and that is my questioning

[Joey]

but not who declined to participate for whatever reason, and that is my questioning

Why does it matter who didn't try out? There are several players who did, so I guess you can just extrapolate who didn't answer the call for Team USA?

Regardless, its this exact line of thinking that I don't understand; no one is pointing to the Team USA selection and saying "See! Demar is as good as Anthony Davis!" Far from it actually.
But simply, that to be chosen from amongst those that did try out, to represent his country, is an admirable accomplishment and one people shouldn't poo-poo all over just because they don't like the guy or his game.

As one example, Demar was chosen over Gordon Hayward for the team; a player many around here would say is emphatically better than Demar in all facets of the game ... and yet, for some reason, Coach K and the minds at Team USA, decided to pick DD. Once again, no one uses this fact to say "Demar is obviously better than Hayward", but to simply counter the arguments of people saying Demar is a "net-negative", "Dion Waiters is better than him", "on par with Nick Young" etc.

The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle.

[McRealistic]

Why does it matter who didn't try out? There are several players who did, so I guess you can just extrapolate who didn't answer the call for Team USA?

Regardless, its this exact line of thinking that I don't understand; no one is pointing to the Team USA selection and saying "See! Demar is as good as Anthony Davis!" Far from it actually.
But simply, that to be chosen from amongst those that did try out, to represent his country, is an admirable accomplishment and one people shouldn't poo-poo all over just because they don't like the guy or his game.

As one example, Demar was chosen over Gordon Hayward for the team; a player many around here would say is emphatically better than Demar in all facets of the game ... and yet, for some reason, Coach K and the minds at Team USA, decided to pick DD. Once again, no one uses this fact to say "Demar is obviously better than Hayward", but to simply counter the arguments of people saying Demar is a "net-negative", "Dion Waiters is better than him", "on par with Nick Young" etc.

The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle.

This post needs to be repeated ...

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Who cares about team USA?

When it comes to DeRozan, the arguments are really about why he plays the way he usually does (coach's directive VS selfish player), can he more consistently be an all-around player (he had a handful of awesome games last season), and what does the future hold (will he re-sign, what will he demand, and how much is too much).

It all comes down to subjective opinions and unknowns, so no wonder there is such passionate debate around here.

Personally, I get the feeling that his contract status is going to become a more influential factor than his actual play, when MU determines the future of DeRozan and the Raptors. The next few weeks /months should be quite interesting, regardless of the side of the DD fence you sit on.

[Joey]

When it comes to DeRozan, the arguments are really about why he plays the way he usually does (coach's directive VS selfish player), can he more consistently be an all-around player (he had a handful of awesome games last season), and what does the future hold (will he re-sign, what will he demand, and how much is too much).

Completely agree about the subjectiveness of it all, and even the mass amount of speculation required to even arrive at these, but his selection to Team USA speaks to what certain intelligent basketball minds think of his game, and his play with Team USA was reflective of that ... he wasn't selfish at all during his play with Team USA. He took his role, accepted it, and played within it.

Here's an article that breaks down the lead up to his selection: http://www.raptorshq.com/2014/8/22/6...eam-usa-outing

"DeRozan played a total of 23 minutes (second only to Damian Lillard) and led the team in scoring with 13 points. Most noteworthy though was the fact that DeRozan shot 6-of-9 from the field, grabbed five boards, added six assists (led the team), and even potted a 3-pointer (he was 1 for 1)."

Within it, Demar gets specific praise from Coach K for his play, "Krzyzewski singles out DeMar DeRozan as someone who has played well 'whenever there's been live action' including scrimmages, games."

So to me, his play with Team USA answers alot of the speculative questions people have brought up here. Namely, can he be a #2 or Less; Can he play within a role; Can he be a team player; Does the Coach matter etc.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Completely agree about the subjectiveness of it all, and even the mass amount of speculation required to even arrive at these, but his selection to Team USA speaks to what certain intelligent basketball minds think of his game, and his play with Team USA was reflective of that ... he wasn't selfish at all during his play with Team USA. He took his role, accepted it, and played within it.

Here's an article that breaks down the lead up to his selection: http://www.raptorshq.com/2014/8/22/6...eam-usa-outing

"DeRozan played a total of 23 minutes (second only to Damian Lillard) and led the team in scoring with 13 points. Most noteworthy though was the fact that DeRozan shot 6-of-9 from the field, grabbed five boards, added six assists (led the team), and even potted a 3-pointer (he was 1 for 1)."

Within it, Demar gets specific praise from Coach K for his play, "Krzyzewski singles out DeMar DeRozan as someone who has played well 'whenever there's been live action' including scrimmages, games."

So to me, his play with Team USA answers alot of the speculative questions people have brought up here. Namely, can he be a #2 or Less; Can he play within a role; Can he be a team player; Does the Coach matter etc.

I suppose what I meant is that I really only care how he plays as a Raptor. Is it a respect issue, related to coaches and/or teammates? Is he doing what he is told to do? Is he more a focal point of the defence? The answers to these questions are really all that matter to me. Something has got to give, because the way he's played throughout his Raptor career is not conducive for winning.

Plus, team USA doesn't have a salary cap to worry about, which is a hugely critical factor that can't be overlooked.

[special1]

Yup, we all remember the Joe Johnson allstar selection 2 years ago, right? Even the most knowledgeable people on any topic, can make a mistake.

He sure looked like an all-star while he was kicking our ass in the first round of the playoffs.....

I don't think they made a mistake at all. That's just your opinion.

[Bear]

Why does it matter who didn't try out? There are several players who did, so I guess you can just extrapolate who didn't answer the call for Team USA?

Regardless, its this exact line of thinking that I don't understand; no one is pointing to the Team USA selection and saying "See! Demar is as good as Anthony Davis!" Far from it actually.
But simply, that to be chosen from amongst those that did try out, to represent his country, is an admirable accomplishment and one people shouldn't poo-poo all over just because they don't like the guy or his game.

As one example, Demar was chosen over Gordon Hayward for the team; a player many around here would say is emphatically better than Demar in all facets of the game ... and yet, for some reason, Coach K and the minds at Team USA, decided to pick DD. Once again, no one uses this fact to say "Demar is obviously better than Hayward", but to simply counter the arguments of people saying Demar is a "net-negative", "Dion Waiters is better than him", "on par with Nick Young" etc.

The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle.

Demar is a net negative on the court.
He beat out Hayward when Hayward wasnt as good as he is now.

Demar is what he is, a largely inefficient, high usage better than average points producer, who if not for the system in place around him would become much more of a net minus.

[Bear]

Completely agree about the subjectiveness of it all, and even the mass amount of speculation required to even arrive at these, but his selection to Team USA speaks to what certain intelligent basketball minds think of his game, and his play with Team USA was reflective of that ... he wasn't selfish at all during his play with Team USA. He took his role, accepted it, and played within it.

Here's an article that breaks down the lead up to his selection: http://www.raptorshq.com/2014/8/22/6...eam-usa-outing

"DeRozan played a total of 23 minutes (second only to Damian Lillard) and led the team in scoring with 13 points. Most noteworthy though was the fact that DeRozan shot 6-of-9 from the field, grabbed five boards, added six assists (led the team), and even potted a 3-pointer (he was 1 for 1)."

Within it, Demar gets specific praise from Coach K for his play, "Krzyzewski singles out DeMar DeRozan as someone who has played well 'whenever there's been live action' including scrimmages, games."

So to me, his play with Team USA answers alot of the speculative questions people have brought up here. Namely, can he be a #2 or Less; Can he play within a role; Can he be a team player; Does the Coach matter etc.

Magic Johnson was a number 2 on team usa, Bird was a number 10, Ewing was a number 4 or 5......meaning is that comparing team usa to team NBA is 2 totally different things.

[Joey]

Demar is a net negative on the court.
He beat out Hayward when Hayward wasnt as good as he is now.

Demar is what he is, a largely inefficient, high usage better than average points producer, who if not for the system in place around him would become much more of a net minus.

Hold on ... so you're saying the system that Casey utilizes now is actually helping Demar? So you think another coach will actually make Demar worse??

[slaw]

First of all, the offense wasn't 3rd, it was 4th. But more importantly, ANY team can have a top 5 ranked offense. It's really easy to do if you completely forget about defense, which the Raps did last season.

Both Jay Triano (2009-10) and Sam Mitchell (2005-06) coached significantly less talented Raptor teams to top 5 offenses. You're talking about a team with Pape Sow, Joey Graham and Hoffa(wtf!) logging significant starting minutes being a top 5 offense. Top 5 NBA offense is easy.

Not Demar-related but this post is utterly ridiculous. If it was so "easy" then an offensively challenged contender like Memphis would just easily improve its offense to the point it was top 5. The top 14 teams by OFFRtg last year were all playoff teams. Look at the discrepancy between teams at the top and teams in the middle. Hell, the difference to the bottom is a whopping 17 points! That's basically a quarter of the game! But it's "easy" to gain 16 points per 100 possessions.

I love your citation of the 05-06 and 09-10 teams. Let's look at one name you conveniently forgot to mention: Chris Bosh. One of the most efficient scoring big men in the history of the NBA. Think he had something to do with that? Just maybe? Like in the 09-10 season when he had a PER of 25 and was a minor MVP candidate? Or the 05-06 year when he had his breakout season? And that team wasn't featuring Pape Sow, Joey Graham and Hoffa. That team was Bosh, Mike James, MoPete, Calderon, Villanueva, Jalen Rose and Matt Bonner.

Come on.

[Bear]

Hold on ... so you're saying the system that Casey utilizes now is actually helping Demar? So you think another coach will actually make Demar worse??

In some instances, yes.

Our offense is heavily geared towards maximizing opportunity for Demar, that cannot be argues.

And in a more balanced offensive flow with fewer opportunities you would see his numbers all dip. I do not think that he can improve upon his efficiency, that has stayed relatively constant over his entire career, so less opportunity will result in less output. And I cannot see his defensive side picking up the slack.

Last season was the only year in which he managed a net positive on the basketball court.

And it inst so much about another coach, but more another system...which we would need to have to utilize and legit upgrade in the front court.

His arguably best 2 seasons production wise he carried a usage of 28. you bring that number down to 25 or below again and you are looking at numbers he had 3 and 4 years ago...about 17ppg, 3.5rpg and 2apg with a net negative in terms of production of -6 or7.

[Nilanka]

He sure looked like an all-star while he was kicking our ass in the first round of the playoffs.....

I don't think they made a mistake at all. That's just your opinion.

Who had a better first half of the 2013-14 season? Johnson or Lowry?

[enlightenment]

His arguably best 2 seasons production wise he carried a usage of 28. you bring that number down to 25 or below again and you are looking at numbers he had 3 and 4 years ago...about 17ppg, 3.5rpg and 2apg with a net negative in terms of production of -6 or7.

You are assuming a linear relationship between usage and production. It is obviously nonlinear, meaning efficiencies change as usage change.

[Bear]

Not Demar-related but this post is utterly ridiculous. If it was so "easy" then an offensively challenged contender like Memphis would just easily improve its offense to the point it was top 5. The top 14 teams by OFFRtg last year were all playoff teams. Look at the discrepancy between teams at the top and teams in the middle. Hell, the difference to the bottom is a whopping 17 points! That's basically a quarter of the game! But it's "easy" to gain 16 points per 100 possessions.

I love your citation of the 05-06 and 09-10 teams. Let's look at one name you conveniently forgot to mention: Chris Bosh. One of the most efficient scoring big men in the history of the NBA. Think he had something to do with that? Just maybe? Like in the 09-10 season when he had a PER of 25 and was a minor MVP candidate? Or the 05-06 year when he had his breakout season? And that team wasn't featuring Pape Sow, Joey Graham and Hoffa. That team was Bosh, Mike James, MoPete, Calderon, Villanueva, Jalen Rose and Matt Bonner.

Come on.

and last season we were the team featuring JJs ridiculous efficiency, JVs great efficienc, the 6th man of the year, and the amazing play of Kyle Lowry