Everything Derozan

[TrueTorontoFan]

Too early in my opinion. Lets start this thread after summer league.

[KHD]

#TradeEm

[McRealistic]

I just wanted to make a separate thread for this since it has sort of become its own major issue within the whole Everything DeMar DeRozan thread. I just wanted to point something out that I thought was interesting.

DeRozan's extension that he got after his rookie contract for 10M per year started in the 2012-13 season where the salary cap was $58.044M. Meaning that his contract took up ~17.22% of the cap. At the time many Raptors fans thought this was a terrible contract, stating that DeRozan was worth more like 6-7M per year. However, the contract turned out to be a bargain.

We now face DeRozan's looming 3rd NBA contract. With many people fearing him getting a deal starting at the max with annual increases, most realists have settled on somewhere at ~18-20M being a more accurate projection of the money he might get on the open market (or perhaps from the Raptors at 12:01 on July 1st, 2016).

I want to point out that signing DeRozan for an 18-20M per year deal is basically no worse than the contract he was given after his rookie deal. This may be hard to believe but the numbers do check out.

At the end of the 2016-17 season, the cap is meant to increase to 108M. This means that a 20M contract would be worth less than 1/5 of the cap or to be more accurate, 18.5% of the cap. This would mean that DeRozan's 20M per year contract would only take up 1.3% more of the cap than his first extension did in year 1.

Now explain to me what there is to be so worried about?

Great Thread. Great Points. I made similar post a week ago and pointed out to the % vs the actual $ amount. There was a great article on the front page as well about this.

That being said, there is a reason we have a 400+ pages thread on DD. The hate this guy get now is not logical and does not matter, what you post and what the number say and ... The haters and bashers will hate and bash this guy not understanding how hard it is to sign FAs in today's NBA and what salaries really means.

Danny Green, Draymond Green, Middleton, Harris and ... are few names that these guys drooled over during the past season while ignoring the FACT that their teams will definitely match and will do all they can to keep them.

[McRealistic]

OK, let's try this again.

Starting salary, 25.1M.

Average salary over 5 years, 29M. That's about 28% of the average salary cap over the length of the contract.

Please let's all stop ignoring the possibility that DeRozan ends up making twice as much as he does now proportionally to the cap (he will make 14% of the cap this year).

In that 5 years, the cap will increase. So lets take that into account as well Cap will not stay at 108.

[Scraptor]

That being said, there is a reason we have a 400+ pages thread on DD. The hate this guy get now is not logical and does not matter, what you post and what the number say and ... The haters and bashers will hate and bash this guy not understanding how hard it is to sign FAs in today's NBA and what salaries really means.

I like how when people provide reasoned arguments based on facts, your counter-response is to dismiss it as hating and bashing. Criticism is not hate.

One of these days one of you guys should really put together a long, stats- and facts-based argument as to why DeRozan is worth even $20mm/year. Heck I might even do it just as a thought exercise.

In that 5 years, the cap will increase. So lets take that into account as well Cap will not stay at 108.

No, the cap is not expected to increase after the surge to $108mm. The following years are projected to be $100, $102, and $107mm. So in 2018-19, DeMar on a max deal could be using 29% of the cap... This would be the equivalent of having paid him $18mm last year. Does that sound reasonable to you?

[BS10]

I suppose one of the reasons to keeping Derozan would be his work ethic and its influence on the younger guys. I think we hear it all the time that no one works harder on the team than Derozan and him being a gym rat. I think because we have a lot of younger guys, an advantage for keeping Demar here is that he can help mold guys like Wright, Powell, Bruno, Bebe, etc.. into better players. Especially since Demar has been on Team USA and been able to acquire the knowledge of the behaviours of some of the best players in the world, he can easily pass on this information to our players. Even if Derozan doesn't ever pan out to be as great as Kobe Bryant or whoever else, he can easily help transform one of our younger players into someone greater than himself (DD). Thats why i'm expecting Masai to keep him around, if not for anything else.

[DanH]

In that 5 years, the cap will increase. So lets take that into account as well Cap will not stay at 108.

As Scraptor points out, this is not true.

The cap is surging with a secondary jump to 108M because of the way the cap is calculated - it takes into account whether the league overspent or underspent the previous season. With so many teams having cap room, most teams will be spending in the near vicinity of the cap, rather than the average spending about 10% higher than the cap per usual. As such, there is an over correction of the cap the following year, pushing it up to 108M. Since that year will be overspent due to the artificially high cap, the following year will normalize back to 100M or so. Then the gradual increases we are used to, about 2-5M per year.

[S.R.]

I just wanted to make a separate thread for this since it has sort of become its own major issue within the whole Everything DeMar DeRozan thread. I just wanted to point something out that I thought was interesting.

DeRozan's extension that he got after his rookie contract for 10M per year started in the 2012-13 season where the salary cap was $58.044M. Meaning that his contract took up ~17.22% of the cap. At the time many Raptors fans thought this was a terrible contract, stating that DeRozan was worth more like 6-7M per year. However, the contract turned out to be a bargain.

We now face DeRozan's looming 3rd NBA contract. With many people fearing him getting a deal starting at the max with annual increases, most realists have settled on somewhere at ~18-20M being a more accurate projection of the money he might get on the open market (or perhaps from the Raptors at 12:01 on July 1st, 2016).

I want to point out that signing DeRozan for an 18-20M per year deal is basically no worse than the contract he was given after his rookie deal. This may be hard to believe but the numbers do check out.

At the end of the 2016-17 season, the cap is meant to increase to 108M. This means that a 20M contract would be worth less than 1/5 of the cap or to be more accurate, 18.5% of the cap. This would mean that DeRozan's 20M per year contract would only take up 1.3% more of the cap than his first extension did in year 1.

Now explain to me what there is to be so worried about?

He isn't good enough to warrant it.

Yeah that argument's not gonna cut it.

People are getting caught up in the $ value of the contract instead of looking at percentages of the cap. I remember reading a post on reddit I think where a guy said if reporters just tweeted out the % of the cap that a player is getting paid instead of 5yr/50M or whatever, a lot less people would freak out over contracts.

The NBA salary cap in 2017/18 will almost be double what it was when DeRozan signed his first extension. So him making double the money... kind of makes sense (and might even turn out to be a steal again). Especially given that he's a lot better now than he was then.

OK, let's try this again.

Starting salary, 25.1M.

Average salary over 5 years, 29M. That's about 28% of the average salary cap over the length of the contract.

Please let's all stop ignoring the possibility that DeRozan ends up making twice as much as he does now proportionally to the cap (he will make 14% of the cap this year).

Ok man

This was pretty fun to read, but let's shut it down now.

#ItsOvah
#LetsGoHome

[iblastoff]

In that 5 years, the cap will increase. So lets take that into account as well Cap will not stay at 108.

pretty obvious that anyone whos actually following the cap changes knows this is complete bullshit

[McRealistic]

As Scraptor points out, this is not true.

The cap is surging with a secondary jump to 108M because of the way the cap is calculated - it takes into account whether the league overspent or underspent the previous season. With so many teams having cap room, most teams will be spending in the near vicinity of the cap, rather than the average spending about 10% higher than the cap per usual. As such, there is an over correction of the cap the following year, pushing it up to 108M. Since that year will be overspent due to the artificially high cap, the following year will normalize back to 100M or so. Then the gradual increases we are used to, about 2-5M per year.

where are you getting these numbers from ?? Are these just speculations or there are sources that have set the cap for the next 3-4 years ?

[McRealistic]

This would be the equivalent of having paid him $18mm last year. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I think DD was worth around 15 million last year and with the improvements that he has made every year, he will be worth even more. Now given the fact that we have to over pay for talents to stay in Toronto, 18 million was not even that bad.

Again, you guys can argue about the money and ... but what this off season has proved is that teams will over pay their start RFAs to keep them in town.

So even if you save your money and ... Cap space does not bring you talent anymore. Talent brings you talent via recruiting and a team that is able to compete attracts star players.

This is why DD is necessary for this team because with DD we are a better team. But again, who cares about these facts. There is 400+ pages about DD and all of these has been discussed to death.

The great thing is that MU has proven to be much smarter than average fan here and seem to understand the value of a star player like DD and is not going to just trade him away for nothing in a fear of that one day, DD might ask for $25.

[Axel]

I think DD was worth around 15 million last year and with the improvements that he has made every year, he will be worth even more. Now given the fact that we have to over pay for talents to stay in Toronto, 18 million was not even that bad.

Again, you guys can argue about the money and ... but what this off season has proved is that teams will over pay their start RFAs to keep them in town.

So even if you save your money and ... Cap space does not bring you talent anymore. Talent brings you talent via recruiting and a team that is able to compete attracts star players.

This is why DD is necessary for this team because with DD we are a better team. But again, who cares about these facts. There is 400+ pages about DD and all of these has been discussed to death.

The great thing is that MU has proven to be much smarter than average fan here and seem to understand the value of a star player like DD and is not going to just trade him away for nothing in a fear of that one day, DD might ask for $25.

I think we have different definitions for "star player".

[psrs1]

He will get dealt..not that raptors wouldn't dish out that kind of money,but Demar isn't worth it. I still believe the main target down the road will b Wiggins,his the kind of player u give out 25 million and plus or kevin durant. We've seen the best of demar, I'm not sure he will ever b a franchise player,all star..yes. Do u want 2 just get passed first rd or win championships..

Hopefully MU will not the mistake that BC made with Chris Bosh.

[DanH]

where are you getting these numbers from ?? Are these just speculations or there are sources that have set the cap for the next 3-4 years ?

Well, first, anyone who reads the CBA and understands how the cap is calculated can figure it out themselves.

But the NBA also released projections for the next 4 years to teams.

[Heatdreamer]

As Scraptor points out, this is not true.

The cap is surging with a secondary jump to 108M because of the way the cap is calculated - it takes into account whether the league overspent or underspent the previous season. With so many teams having cap room, most teams will be spending in the near vicinity of the cap, rather than the average spending about 10% higher than the cap per usual. As such, there is an over correction of the cap the following year, pushing it up to 108M. Since that year will be overspent due to the artificially high cap, the following year will normalize back to 100M or so. Then the gradual increases we are used to, about 2-5M per year.

The salary cap is based on 51% of the BRI, no longer 50%, less attribution for benefits , please confirm that is correct