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  • Snooch wrote: View Post
    How much does the team need to do for Demar, Jees, they build the team around him, they give him a usage of over 28%, they turn a blind eye towards poor defense, they accept his sup average shooting, all the teams offense is geared to maximize demars mediocre contributions offensively and he can still only muster a net negative on the court......and people think team should be doing more.....
    Problem is Raptors under Dwayne have done nothing to maximize DD. They turned him into a PG. SG need to score off-ball and be the secondary ball handler. He was also never given tough defensive assignments. Most of the criticisms of him are Casey based since multiple players have played like DD in Caseys 5 years.

    Comment


    • DanH wrote: View Post
      Keep in mind, the cap room available-to-free agents available ratio this year is NOTHING like next year. Even with this summer's signings taking the coming boom into account, there just aren't the cap resources to offer everyone the max. Next summer, the cap will be there to offer a LOT of maximum contracts, and there will only be a few guys worth it.
      Right, so lots of demand and not much supply. But that will apply to all 2016 free agents. So is the move just to sit on it until the year after?

      That doesn't seem like a good idea with our current team. Maybe you just offer shorter contracts at those inflated prices.

      Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
      "Bruno?
      Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
      He's terrible."

      -Superjudge, 7/23

      Hope you're wrong.

      Comment


      • raptors999 wrote: View Post
        Problem is Raptors under Dwayne have done nothing to maximize DD. They turned him into a PG. SG need to score off-ball and be the secondary ball handler. He was also never given tough defensive assignments. Most of the criticisms of him are Casey based since multiple players have played like DD in Caseys 5 years.
        what?

        that is absolute nonesense, the system ignors players who have very high efficiency in favour of putting ball into demars hands for most possessions, guy carries a 28% usage rate, that is some of the highest in the nba, in fact he was 13th amungst players averaging at least 30 minutes a game. Just behind Steph Curry. In fact Steph only had a higher usage rate of 0.5%. Half a percent more usage for Steph curry over Demar, STEPH CURYY...MVP!

        Comment


        • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
          Colangelo did a very good job of selling DD through the media to young fans who ended up here
          My eyes rolled through the back of my head when I saw this.

          Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
          "Bruno?
          Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
          He's terrible."

          -Superjudge, 7/23

          Hope you're wrong.

          Comment


          • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
            Third banana

            and look who he is lumped in with.

            Ahhhhhhh shit! This is the DD thread!

            NO.
            MORE.
            Face it, your time here would be 95% less interesting without DeMar on this team lol

            As soon as I saw Lowe mention "third bananas" I knew there would be some pants-unbuttoning on the forums.

            Comment


            • stooley wrote: View Post
              Right, so lots of demand and not much supply. But that will apply to all 2016 free agents. So is the move just to sit on it until the year after?

              That doesn't seem like a good idea with our current team. Maybe you just offer shorter contracts at those inflated prices.

              Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
              It will apply only to non-max free agents - true max guys are unaffected by supply/demand, they always get the max. But with supply/demand messed up, it's the second and third tier guys that will get big raises. Sitting on it is a possibility. And a few smart teams will. But you can bet a LOT of teams won't.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • DanH wrote: View Post
                It will apply only to non-max free agents - true max guys are unaffected by supply/demand, they always get the max. But with supply/demand messed up, it's the second and third tier guys that will get big raises. Sitting on it is a possibility. And a few smart teams will. But you can bet a LOT of teams won't.
                Agree completely.

                Except that I'm not sure it would be smart for a team in the raptors position to sit on it, given our players age and just natural progression of the team.

                Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                "Bruno?
                Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                He's terrible."

                -Superjudge, 7/23

                Hope you're wrong.

                Comment


                • stooley wrote: View Post
                  My eyes rolled through the back of my head when I saw this.

                  Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                  Who doesn't love a good conspiracy theory?

                  Comment


                  • stooley wrote: View Post
                    So I'm not exactly sure why Derozan, of all free agents is expected to get overpaid.

                    I understand the market situation, but that alone would imply that all free agents will get overpaid. In that case, should we not spend our cap space at all?

                    Is it because Derozan is a quasi star? And if so, is there a history of those guys being consistently overpaid? This year alone both Ellis, Harris and afflalo all got less than the max.
                    This year isn't next year.

                    Next year, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of fifteen to twenty teams will have enough cap space to give a player a max deal, and most of the rest will be able to engineer a trade to get themselves that cap space easily enough if they want to do so. And a bunch of teams will be chasing Kevin Durant: OKC, Washington, the Knicks, the Clippers, the Lakers, probably Dallas and Houston, maybe us, likely Phoenix and Miami, probably one or two other teams we aren't even talking about yet (Portland? Milwaukee?). But there's only one Durant to go around. The second tier of "true" stars is small: Horford, Noah, maybe Dwight Howard if he opts out, maybe Dwyane Wade if for some reason he and the Heat have a falling out (won't happen).

                    Here's the thing: when teams whiff on their primary target, they go after their backup plan. This happens all the time. Think New York in 2010 when they whiffed on getting LeBron: they went and signed Stat to a crazyballs contract. Remember that teams have to spend a minimum amount of money anyway - ninety percent of the salary cap - so as a general rule they might as well spend that money on star players because stars sell tickets and create fan excitement.

                    What this means is: if teams have collectively, say, $750m of cap space in 2016, they will use pretty much all of it and more (although most will avoid going into the luxury tax and Philly will probably still be under because it's Philly). Which means that teams will want to get themselves a star with that money, and if they can't get Durant or Horford or whoever, they'll do an admirable job of convincing themselves that DeMar - or Jeff Green or Nic Batum or whomever - is a star. I mean, by next summer DeMar will have been the lead scorer for the Raptors for years and may be a two-time All-Star. That's a star player, right?

                    It happened this year in Sacramento when they decided Rondo was still worth $10m. It happened in Detroit when they paid Reggie Jackson $16m a year for five years (way more than he was worth, even with the "the higher cap makes it a bargain eventually" guideline). Phoenix may well have overpaid dramatically for Brandon Knight. Teams will convince themselves that players are stars and next summer isn't going to be any different. Somebody's going to give DeMar more than $20m a year.

                    Comment


                    • stooley wrote: View Post
                      Agree completely.

                      Except that I'm not sure it would be smart for a team in the raptors position to sit on it, given our players age and just natural progression of the team.

                      Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                      The natural progression of this team is, or at least should be, asset accumulation. Inflated contracts aren't assets.
                      "Stop eating your sushi."
                      "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                      "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                      - Jack Armstrong

                      Comment


                      • magoon wrote: View Post
                        This year isn't next year.

                        Next year, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of fifteen to twenty teams will have enough cap space to give a player a max deal, and most of the rest will be able to engineer a trade to get themselves that cap space easily enough if they want to do so. And a bunch of teams will be chasing Kevin Durant: OKC, Washington, the Knicks, the Clippers, the Lakers, probably Dallas and Houston, maybe us, likely Phoenix and Miami, probably one or two other teams we aren't even talking about yet (Portland? Milwaukee?). But there's only one Durant to go around. The second tier of "true" stars is small: Horford, Noah, maybe Dwight Howard if he opts out, maybe Dwyane Wade if for some reason he and the Heat have a falling out (won't happen).

                        Here's the thing: when teams whiff on their primary target, they go after their backup plan. This happens all the time. Think New York in 2010 when they whiffed on getting LeBron: they went and signed Stat to a crazyballs contract. Remember that teams have to spend a minimum amount of money anyway - ninety percent of the salary cap - so as a general rule they might as well spend that money on star players because stars sell tickets and create fan excitement.

                        What this means is: if teams have collectively, say, $750m of cap space in 2016, they will use pretty much all of it and more (although most will avoid going into the luxury tax and Philly will probably still be under because it's Philly). Which means that teams will want to get themselves a star with that money, and if they can't get Durant or Horford or whoever, they'll do an admirable job of convincing themselves that DeMar - or Jeff Green or Nic Batum or whomever - is a star. I mean, by next summer DeMar will have been the lead scorer for the Raptors for years and may be a two-time All-Star. That's a star player, right?

                        It happened this year in Sacramento when they decided Rondo was still worth $10m. It happened in Detroit when they paid Reggie Jackson $16m a year for five years (way more than he was worth, even with the "the higher cap makes it a bargain eventually" guideline). Phoenix may well have overpaid dramatically for Brandon Knight. Teams will convince themselves that players are stars and next summer isn't going to be any different. Somebody's going to give DeMar more than $20m a year.
                        I understand all that.

                        But that is going to impact every 2016 free agent. So the decision isn't demar or not.

                        It's to spend at all or not.

                        Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                        "Bruno?
                        Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                        He's terrible."

                        -Superjudge, 7/23

                        Hope you're wrong.

                        Comment


                        • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                          The natural progression of this team is, or at least should be, asset accumulation. Inflated contracts aren't assets.
                          With Lowry and Carroll, our two highest paid players, being in their prime, I think it would be smarter to tank than to sit that summer out entirely.

                          Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                          "Bruno?
                          Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                          He's terrible."

                          -Superjudge, 7/23

                          Hope you're wrong.

                          Comment


                          • magoon wrote: View Post
                            This year isn't next year.

                            Next year, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of fifteen to twenty teams will have enough cap space to give a player a max deal, and most of the rest will be able to engineer a trade to get themselves that cap space easily enough if they want to do so. And a bunch of teams will be chasing Kevin Durant: OKC, Washington, the Knicks, the Clippers, the Lakers, probably Dallas and Houston, maybe us, likely Phoenix and Miami, probably one or two other teams we aren't even talking about yet (Portland? Milwaukee?). But there's only one Durant to go around. The second tier of "true" stars is small: Horford, Noah, maybe Dwight Howard if he opts out, maybe Dwyane Wade if for some reason he and the Heat have a falling out (won't happen).

                            Here's the thing: when teams whiff on their primary target, they go after their backup plan. This happens all the time. Think New York in 2010 when they whiffed on getting LeBron: they went and signed Stat to a crazyballs contract. Remember that teams have to spend a minimum amount of money anyway - ninety percent of the salary cap - so as a general rule they might as well spend that money on star players because stars sell tickets and create fan excitement.

                            What this means is: if teams have collectively, say, $750m of cap space in 2016, they will use pretty much all of it and more (although most will avoid going into the luxury tax and Philly will probably still be under because it's Philly). Which means that teams will want to get themselves a star with that money, and if they can't get Durant or Horford or whoever, they'll do an admirable job of convincing themselves that DeMar - or Jeff Green or Nic Batum or whomever - is a star. I mean, by next summer DeMar will have been the lead scorer for the Raptors for years and may be a two-time All-Star. That's a star player, right?

                            It happened this year in Sacramento when they decided Rondo was still worth $10m. It happened in Detroit when they paid Reggie Jackson $16m a year for five years (way more than he was worth, even with the "the higher cap makes it a bargain eventually" guideline). Phoenix may well have overpaid dramatically for Brandon Knight. Teams will convince themselves that players are stars and next summer isn't going to be any different. Somebody's going to give DeMar more than $20m a year.
                            The league has an abundance of GM's and coaches tripping over each other to spend their boss' money in hopes of not getting fired. You're right, all those teams with all that cap space. Some team(s) will justify it under the new cap landscape and the promise of unmet "potential" and will take the plunge on DeRozan. DeRozan will jump all over it and Ujiri being the smart guy he is will let the man walk if he has no viable options at that point.

                            So they should try to move DeRozan to an interested team for assets and then when FA hits next off season, hopefully use that cap space on someone(s) who can help the team make another step forward. I hope DeRozan comes out of the gate looking like a billion bucks. The better he looks early the better it is for the Raptors in moving him and in justifying such a decision to themselves (better volume stats = more money on the market).

                            He's a volume guy when you look at the advanced stats. He can be replaced.

                            Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk

                            Comment


                            • stooley wrote: View Post
                              With Lowry and Carroll, our two highest paid players, being in their prime, I think it would be smarter to tank than to sit that summer out entirely.

                              Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                              I wouldn't be against trading Lowry and Carroll, just depends on the return. IMHO the smartest route for this team is to stockpile as much talent and as many assets for the moment when Wiggins is a free agent, while at the same time developing a team culture that can translate to winning.

                              If trading Lowry and Carroll gets you a lot back, then do it. If no, then hang back in free agency. See if you can be a facilitator by taking on bloated contracts, with picks and young players being the sweetener. Be the playoff version of the Sixers.
                              "Stop eating your sushi."
                              "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                              "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                              - Jack Armstrong

                              Comment


                              • Apollo wrote: View Post
                                The league has an abundance of GM's and coaches tripping over each other to spend their boss' money in hopes of not getting fired. You're right, all those teams with all that cap space. Some team(s) will justify it under the new cap landscape and the promise of unmet "potential" and will take the plunge on DeRozan. DeRozan will jump all over it and Ujiri being the smart guy he is will let the man walk if he has no viable options at that point.

                                So they should try to move DeRozan to an interested team for assets and then when FA hits next off season, hopefully use that cap space on someone(s) who can help the team make another step forward. I hope DeRozan comes out of the gate looking like a billion bucks. The better he looks early the better it is for the Raptors in moving him and in justifying such a decision to themselves (better volume stats = more money on the market).

                                He's a volume guy when you look at the advanced stats. He can be replaced.

                                Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk
                                So again, every player is going to be overpriced next season.

                                So I don't see the logic in dumping demar for that reason, and then expecting to sign someone else who isn't overpriced.

                                Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                                "Bruno?
                                Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                                He's terrible."

                                -Superjudge, 7/23

                                Hope you're wrong.

                                Comment

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