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  • stooley wrote: View Post
    I understand all that.

    But that is going to impact every 2016 free agent. So the decision isn't demar or not.

    It's to spend at all or not.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    I think it's more about cap allocation. If you can avoid becoming locked in at 28-29% of the cap for a third option, then you shift resources and hope to find better value elsewhere as opportunities arise.

    It will certainly be harder to find value opportunities, but every year a couple teams blow it up, and something might surface.

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    • The appeal is in getting someone who is a better fit for the team. A player who is highly efficient. It's not a bad thing to overpay for a player who is good on any team, in any system. It's another thing to overpay for a guy who's stats have been inflated due to the opportunities created by playing for a team with no true stars(put him on the Thunder or Warriors and he blends into the crowd) . DeRozan is a sidekick who is going to be paid like a star.

      I'd rather them NOT break the bank and stay under cap for a few years rather than blow it all in a mad flurry of gross spending. When the dust settles the real market prices will be established and some teams will be left holding some seriously shitty contracts. Oh, the hangover.

      Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk

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      • Snooch wrote: View Post
        what?

        that is absolute nonesense, the system ignors players who have very high efficiency in favour of putting ball into demars hands for most possessions, guy carries a 28% usage rate, that is some of the highest in the nba, in fact he was 13th amungst players averaging at least 30 minutes a game. Just behind Steph Curry. In fact Steph only had a higher usage rate of 0.5%. Half a percent more usage for Steph curry over Demar, STEPH CURYY...MVP!
        It isn't a stats issue. Demar is a SG who doesn't shoot. This isn't about his range but using him to dribble to create his shot. His usage could remain the same but he could move off-ball more and take more catch & shoot possessions. His dribbling eats the clock

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        • stooley wrote: View Post
          So again, every player is going to be overpriced next season.

          So I don't see the logic in dumping demar for that reason, and then expecting to sign someone else who isn't overpriced.

          Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
          And who says by trading DeMar we open cap room next summer? Like you said, there is value in waiting, so maybe you take back a couple two year deals that don't expire until 2017, and some young assets (prospects/picks). Then we can play in the secondary cap boom (which will be less ridiculous) with a better hand than most (and without the double-whammy of a flooded cap market AND a rising cap the next year to inflate prices further). Or maybe you trade him for an even longer term piece.

          Why is the only alternative to keeping DeMar using that cap space in free agency?

          Also, as I noted, the true max guys will not be overpaid, by definition, so if DeMar moving or walking gives you a shot at one of them you obviously take it.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • Apollo wrote: View Post
            The appeal is in getting someone who is a better fit for the team. A player who is highly efficient. It's not a bad thing to overpay for a player who is good on any team, in any system. It's another thing to overpay for a guy who's stats have been inflated due to the opportunities created by playing for a team with no true stars(put him on the Thunder or Warriors and he blends into the crowd) . DeRozan is a sidekick who is going to be paid like a star.

            I'd rather them NOT break the bank and stay under cap for a few years rather than blow it all in a mad flurry of gross spending. When the dust settles the real market prices will be established and some teams will be left holding some seriously shitty contracts. Oh, the hangover.

            Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk
            Probably while playing in New York....
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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            • Oh you can bank on NYC having some ugly contracts next year. The modern Knicks aren't the Knicks without them having some embarrassing, growth limiting contracts.



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              • stooley wrote: View Post
                So again, every player is going to be overpriced next season.

                So I don't see the logic in dumping demar for that reason, and then expecting to sign someone else who isn't overpriced.

                Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                exactly, that is why you trade him NOW

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                • Snooch wrote: View Post
                  exactly, that is why you trade him NOW
                  Keep him for the year and if he walks he walks. Guys like Bosh, Vince and Melo on their last year might fetch something but most teams would be willing to wait for Demar or grab him at the trade deadline. Any team willing to max out Dermar isn't a title contender this year or next

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                  • raptors999 wrote: View Post
                    Any team willing to max out Dermar isn't a title contender this year or next.
                    That may not be that particular team's perception of what they have. Don't assume everyone has your view of the field.

                    If you don't want to pay the DeRozan next year then trade him, recoup some of his value and be done with it. Teams in the business of letting their assets walk away aren't in the business of winning. Teams who drop the mother load of cash on inefficient players aren't in the business of winning.

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                    • Apollo wrote: View Post
                      That may not be that particular team's perception of what they have. Don't assume everyone has your view of the field.

                      If you don't want to pay the DeRozan next year then trade him, recoup some of his value and be done with it. Teams in the business of letting their assets walk away aren't in the business of winning. Teams who drop the mother load of cash on inefficient players aren't in the business of winning.
                      trading him just to trade him means the team is creating a hole. unless they get some value back its better just to use him then lose him

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                      • raptors999 wrote: View Post
                        Problem is Raptors under Dwayne have done nothing to maximize DD. They turned him into a PG. SG need to score off-ball and be the secondary ball handler. He was also never given tough defensive assignments. Most of the criticisms of him are Casey based since multiple players have played like DD in Caseys 5 years.
                        I tend to agree with you.
                        Casey is a HC. His job is find the plans/situations/plays for his players to excel & maximize the scoring and chances of winning.
                        Demar's job is to run/execute those plans.
                        Clearly the execution is yielding sub par results.
                        Now, last 50 plus games we witnessed a lot of inefficient ISO ball. The result: 6th man for Lou & generally sub-par results overall.
                        How does saying go: The definition of insanity is doing same thing over & expecting diff results. Casey does just that (continues with same style).
                        Only 3 possibilities:
                        1. Inmates are running the show (coach lost the players who did whatever they wanted);
                        2. Coach is not capable of coming with a better plan;
                        3. Too many players that excel only in Iso, no D system.
                        Maybe DC had to go. That did not happen. Now, Masai seems like a smart guy. Why not? Maybe Casey had no options (just 1 Eg: let Lou go Iso or JJ or GV). Hope the ball goes in at a high rate because sure as hell we were not stopping anybody.
                        So Masai made changes.
                        In addition, there seemed to be a division in locker room. What exactly happened, I don't know. It is plausible that they were undermining coach & pushing for other options. They too are gone.
                        What now?
                        On paper this appears to be a much better product (esp iff/when we land our starting PF).
                        Then its up to Casey. No more excuses/options for him. Produce or he is gone.

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                        • DanH wrote: View Post
                          And who says by trading DeMar we open cap room next summer? Like you said, there is value in waiting, so maybe you take back a couple two year deals that don't expire until 2017, and some young assets (prospects/picks). Then we can play in the secondary cap boom (which will be less ridiculous) with a better hand than most (and without the double-whammy of a flooded cap market AND a rising cap the next year to inflate prices further). Or maybe you trade him for an even longer term piece.

                          Why is the only alternative to keeping DeMar using that cap space in free agency?

                          Also, as I noted, the true max guys will not be overpaid, by definition, so if DeMar moving or walking gives you a shot at one of them you obviously take it.
                          Well we're going to have cap space next year either way.

                          Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                          "Bruno?
                          Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                          He's terrible."

                          -Superjudge, 7/23

                          Hope you're wrong.

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                          • raptors999 wrote: View Post
                            trading him just to trade him means the team is creating a hole. unless they get some value back its better just to use him then lose him
                            I agree 100%. Then again I provided a logical reason why he should be traded.

                            Also ask yourself this: if he realistically is worth $25M/yr in the new cap then what sort of indicator is that if his trade value if he green lights the trade?

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                            • If we're getting real value back then it's fine to trade him. I just don't see that deadline looming that would mean we have to trade him.

                              If we're just dumping him because it's better than nothing, we may as well wait, sign him and then trade him when we need the flexibility. Even Joe Johnson got half decent value in that dump, and the cap was half as big then.

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                              Last edited by stooley; Tue Jul 7, 2015, 03:06 PM.
                              "Bruno?
                              Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                              He's terrible."

                              -Superjudge, 7/23

                              Hope you're wrong.

                              Comment


                              • I love the parts of this discussion where people argue against extremes that don't actually exist.

                                To clarify: nobody is arguing for dumping DeMargument for a burlap sack full of snot. Also, nobody wants to pay him one hundred billion million dollars. Basically the two options are re-signing him for somewhere between $15m and $29m per year (numbers raised as reasonable or possible) and trading him for a return that exceeds the value of keeping him. Feel free to argue about a reasonable next contract or a reasonable trade return, but the strawman hyperbole's usefulness is inversely proportionate to its entertainment value, much like a stupid dog or a small toddler.
                                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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