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  • stooley wrote: View Post
    it happened last year!
    Ish. I'm wondering about looking at team offence in a vacuum. If you're spending little energy defensively, which is true of many Raptor players last year, then your offence may look better than it should.
    "Stop eating your sushi."
    "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
    "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
    - Jack Armstrong

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    • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
      Ish. I'm wondering about looking at team offence in a vacuum. If you're spending little energy defensively, which is true of many Raptor players last year, then your offence may look better than it should.
      I agree. I think the offence was a result of a lot of good offensive players who were bad at defence

      Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
      "Bruno?
      Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
      He's terrible."

      -Superjudge, 7/23

      Hope you're wrong.

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      • JWash wrote: View Post
        Lol, good one.

        I think you can support DeRozan and still have a great understanding of the game of basketball. When you're getting to the point of calling him a superstar, yeah you don't really have a good grasp of his talent level. But the same is true when you're saying he's no better than Nick Young or Dion Waiters. Not going to post the names of the posters who have these viewpoints, but I'm sure most of you know without me saying.

        There's a happy medium that I think most fans lie in where you can support or not support DD but still be very knowledgeable about the game. Those views I mentioned are extremes, and terms like 'District of DeRozan' only serve to try and lump everyone who is for lack of a better term "left of center" on DeRozan into the same category of radicalism. It's the same thing that happens in elections where uneducated people will try to lump all Republicans in as "rednecks" and Democrats as "libtards".

        Imo the term itself is pretty much a great way to just send any kind of positive discussion down the drain. If I started referring to everyone who doesn't like DD as a Council Member of the City of Criticism (chaired by mcHAPPY with DanH as the finance minister lol sorry had to), shit would get out of hand really fast.
        Muhahahah

        Truth is, thats (Nick Young) what all his production yields (slightly better)

        Talent wise, Waiters is way more talented that DD, he has all the tools

        PS: if you think Waiters has less talent than DD, you have absolutely no ability to identify talent, and that is probably why you love inefficient chuckers who 'love the city' or 'work hard'. Waiters is very good with the ball in his hands.

        stooley wrote: View Post
        it happened last year!
        "He gets better every year tho!"

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        • I just read through 20 pages of this shit.

          I feel like sending a bill to RR for making me waste a bunch of my time

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          • Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
            I just read through 20 pages of this shit.

            I feel like sending a bill to RR for making me waste a bunch of my time
            Technically, you should bill the individual posters.
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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            • Axel wrote: View Post
              Technically, you should bill the individual posters.
              Chr1st1anL you owe me like 1000 bucks for the time wasted

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              • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                Muhahahah

                Truth is, thats (Nick Young) what all his production yields (slightly better)

                Talent wise, Waiters is way more talented that DD, he has all the tools

                PS: if you think Waiters has less talent than DD, you have absolutely no ability to identify talent, and that is probably why you love inefficient chuckers who 'love the city' or 'work hard'. Waiters is very good with the ball in his hands.
                It's weird to me that someone who cites advanced stats to pan DeRozan wouldn't hold his comparisons to the same standards, and would instead refer to talent and tools.

                Last year Dion Waiters shot 5% worse in TS% than DeMar. He had a 2.8% lower rebounding rate (-5.5% defensively) and a 5.1% lower assist rate. Those are large, objective differences in quality of play.

                And that's not even counting the usage argument, which is that DeMar has to carry a heavier burden and thus carries greater attention, which leads to decreased efficiency.

                Nick Young had a slightly better TS% due to his superior 3pt%, but he also had a lower rebounding % (-2.3%) and is essentially a black hole chucker with an assist rate 10.1% lower than DeMar. Nick Young's career assist rate is about 10% lower than what DeMar has put up over the last two years, when he took the next step after the Gay trade.

                If you want to use ESPN's RPM... DeMar was 30th of 98th shooting guards. Nick Young, if classified as a SG instead of a SF, would have placed 50th. Dion Waiters was 73rd.

                Dion Waiters is just terrible. To argue that he's "way more talented" than DD and say that people who like DD "love inefficient chuckers" is so hypocritical and bizarre it really says more about your biases towards DD than anything else.

                Look, I get that DeMar is inefficient. I have pointed it out a TON, here and elsewhere. But he's not the absolute team-killer that some of you are painting him to be.

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                • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                  It's weird to me that someone who cites advanced stats to pan DeRozan wouldn't hold his comparisons to the same standards, and would instead refer to talent and tools.

                  Last year Dion Waiters shot 5% worse in TS% than DeMar. He had a 2.8% lower rebounding rate (-5.5% defensively) and a 5.1% lower assist rate. Those are large, objective differences in quality of play.

                  And that's not even counting the usage argument, which is that DeMar has to carry a heavier burden and thus carries greater attention, which leads to decreased efficiency.

                  Nick Young had a slightly better TS% due to his superior 3pt%, but he also had a lower rebounding % (-2.3%) and is essentially a black hole chucker with an assist rate 10.1% lower than DeMar. Nick Young's career assist rate is about 10% lower than what DeMar has put up over the last two years, when he took the next step after the Gay trade.

                  If you want to use ESPN's RPM... DeMar was 30th of 98th shooting guards. Nick Young, if classified as a SG instead of a SF, would have placed 50th. Dion Waiters was 73rd.

                  Dion Waiters is just terrible. To argue that he's "way more talented" than DD and say that people who like DD "love inefficient chuckers" is so hypocritical and bizarre it really says more about your biases towards DD than anything else.

                  Look, I get that DeMar is inefficient. I have pointed it out a TON, here and elsewhere. But he's not the absolute team-killer that some of you are painting him to be.
                  Why would you respond to a guy who used waiters as a example of a more talented player. Waiters is on his way out of the league and Demar is still a potential all star

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                  • Atothe wrote: View Post
                    Why would you respond to a guy who used waiters as a example of a more talented player. Waiters is on his way out of the league and Demar is still a potential all star
                    Technically, Waiters being on his way out of the league doesn't necessarily mean he's not talented. I would tend to think that Waiters likely had more potential as player, DeMar did not and does not have that much potential. But obviously Waiters hasn't and likely won't reach his potential, whereas DeMar probably will or already has.

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                    • Mindlessness wrote: View Post
                      Technically, Waiters being on his way out of the league doesn't necessarily mean he's not talented. I would tend to think that Waiters likely had more potential as player, DeMar did not and does not have that much potential. But obviously Waiters hasn't and likely won't reach his potential, whereas DeMar probably will or already has.
                      In a nutshell

                      Waiters is more talented

                      But like Micheal Beasley, he has no idea how to operate as a team player so he is finding himself on the outside looking in

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                      • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                        In a nutshell

                        Waiters is more talented

                        But like Micheal Beasley, he has no idea how to operate as a team player so he is finding himself on the outside looking in
                        I don't know about more talented, but he had more potential.

                        Obviously that hasn't helped him... at all.

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                        • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                          In a nutshell

                          Waiters is more talented

                          But like Micheal Beasley, he has no idea how to operate as a team player so he is finding himself on the outside looking in
                          I'm not sure your a very good judge of talent. Everyone that comes into the league has some talent.

                          Demar is a more talented scorer, passer, rebounder, dunker......

                          Also, Scraptor just exposed you.... no response?


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                          • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                            In a nutshell

                            Waiters is more talented

                            But like Micheal Beasley, he has no idea how to operate as a team player so he is finding himself on the outside looking in
                            LOL We're back on this debate ... bummer.

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                            • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                              Muhahahah

                              Truth is, thats (Nick Young) what all his production yields (slightly better)

                              Talent wise, Waiters is way more talented that DD, he has all the tools

                              PS: if you think Waiters has less talent than DD, you have absolutely no ability to identify talent, and that is probably why you love inefficient chuckers who 'love the city' or 'work hard'. Waiters is very good with the ball in his hands.



                              "He gets better every year tho!"
                              Waiters? C'mon OSC, you're better than that. lol.

                              Smitch called Bargs one of the most talented players he's ever coached. Talent is as talent does.

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                              • Deon has far more tools at his disposal than Demar, but then again, so do alot of sgs in this league.

                                And alot of them would produce to similar level as demar if swapped out 1 for 1 and all other things remaining the same.


                                For Fun, some number

                                Amongst all sgs in the league last season playing at least 20 minutes and 20 games(per 36 minutes to make a somewhat fair comparison)


                                Win Share/48 - 25th
                                Win Shares - 30th
                                Offensive Rating - 31st
                                Defensive Rating - 32nd
                                TS% - 42nd
                                Assists - 21st
                                Rebounds - 17th

                                FTA - 2nd
                                PPG - 9th
                                Value over Replacement PLayer - 34th
                                Usage - #2

                                So Demar gets to the line very well. cannot take that away, but for the usage he is given, he gives back, in pretty much ever major statistical category, a terrible return.





                                http://bkref.com/tiny/L2N2Z

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