Everything Derozan

[Bonus Jonas]

Deon has far more tools at his disposal than Demar, but then again, so do alot of sgs in this league.

And alot of them would produce to similar level as demar if swapped out 1 for 1 and all other things remaining the same.


For Fun, some number

Amongst all sgs in the league last season playing at least 20 minutes and 20 games(per 36 minutes to make a somewhat fair comparison)


Win Share/48 - 25th
Win Shares - 30th
Offensive Rating - 31st
Defensive Rating - 32nd
TS% - 42nd
Assists - 21st
Rebounds - 17th
FTA - 2nd
PPG - 9th
Value over Replacement PLayer - 34th
Usage - #2

So Demar gets to the line very well. cannot take that away, but for the usage he is given, he gives back, in pretty much ever major statistical category, a terrible return.





http://bkref.com/tiny/L2N2Z

Not arguing your overall point, but using 20mpg and 20 games played and then using per 36 is a terrible way to prove your point.

[Snooch]

Not arguing your overall point, but using 20mpg and 20 games played and then using per 36 is a terrible way to prove your point.

Not when trying to make a valid case for the ability to replace production by giving other players the same luxury Demar has been given.

If you take it on a per game basis it skews numbers in his favour because it doesnt take into considerations minutes, usage etc.

In order to get a more broad scope I felt as though I needed to use a per 36 basis.

And the 20 game and 20 minute minimum eliminates any 3 game superstars, or guys who play only 5 minutes of garbage time and shoot like crazy which also skews the numbers.

[S.R.]

I'm much less impressed with DeMar's ability to get to the line after watching good teams gameplan for him last year - his ability to draw fouls was really starting to get exposed. Stay in front of him, keep your feet on the ground, your arms straight up, and don't give him any space. He'll pump-fake 4 times and pivot 3 times and end up way off balance, facing the wrong direction, and just trying not to travel at that point. His FTA depend heavily on pumpfaking before a jumpshot - he doesn't have the ability to step past the defender consistently.

In what could be related news (sample size alert), his playoff FTA per game fell off a cliff from 11 vs Brooklyn a year ago to 4 vs Washington. Teams know how to defend his pump-fakes. We'll see if he can adjust - an up and under move, or more work on his handle so he can step by guys would help. Right now he dribbles a lot without actually beating his defender to open space and has to this point bailed himself out with pump-fakes. I think his post game had good potential and maybe he goes back to that some more.

[Bonus Jonas]

Not when trying to make a valid case for the ability to replace production by giving other players the same luxury Demar has been given.

If you take it on a per game basis it skews numbers in his favour because it doesnt take into considerations minutes, usage etc.

In order to get a more broad scope I felt as though I needed to use a per 36 basis.

And the 20 game and 20 minute minimum eliminates any 3 game superstars, or guys who play only 5 minutes of garbage time and shoot like crazy which also skews the numbers.

But 20 games still shouldn't be enough. Is use at least 41, which would be half a season.

And if you're going to use per36, (by the way I wasn't saying you should use per game, that would be even worse) but if you're using per36 I'd up the minutes per game. Huge difference between 20mpg and 33mpg

[Snooch]

But 20 games still shouldn't be enough. Is use at least 41, which would be half a season.

And if you're going to use per36, (by the way I wasn't saying you should use per game, that would be even worse) but if you're using per36 I'd up the minutes per game. Huge difference between 20mpg and 33mpg

Screw it, its monday, not a huge amount of work todo at office...

So 25 mins, 41 games minimum per 36 basis.

Leaves 30 shooting guards that met the criteria.

Win Shares - 17th
Win shares per 48 - 14th
TS - 25th
Offensive Rating - 17th
Defensive Rating - 22nd

Net Rating - 20th

[Bonus Jonas]

So for example if you use 28mpg and 41 games played his new rankings are:

WS/48 - 29/46
WS - 27/46
ORTG - 34/46
DRTG - 34/46
TS% - 40/46
Assists - 33/46
Rebounds - 15/46
FTA - 3/46
PPG - 9/46
VAR - 42/46
USG - 5/46

Although mine does include PG's as I'm not sure where the toggle is for just SG's and G/F's. This one is G and G/F's.

He's still terrible though.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...der_by=usg_pct

Don't know how to shorten URL's, sorry guys.

[Bonus Jonas]

Screw it, its monday, not a huge amount of work todo at office...

So 25 mins, 41 games minimum per 36 basis.

Leaves 30 shooting guards that met the criteria.

Win Shares - 17th
Win shares per 48 - 14th
TS - 25th
Offensive Rating - 17th
Defensive Rating - 22nd

Net Rating - 20th

This is a lot more precise considering your last criteria included 80 players.

[Snooch]

So for example if you use 28mpg and 41 games played his new rankings are:

WS/48 - 29/46
WS - 27/46
ORTG - 34/46
DRTG - 34/46
TS% - 40/46
Assists - 33/46
Rebounds - 15/46
FTA - 3/46
PPG - 9/46
VAR - 42/46
USG - 5/46

Although mine does include PG's as I'm not sure where the toggle is for just SG's and G/F's. This one is G and G/F's.

He's still terrible though.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...der_by=usg_pct

Don't know how to shorten URL's, sorry guys.

I copied the results into an excel sheet, and manipulated from there, first by removing all point guards etc.

[Snooch]

This is a lot more precise considering your last criteria included 80 players.

Didnt include 80 cause I removed all Point guards

[Bonus Jonas]

Didnt include 80 cause I removed all Point guards

Fair enough, how many were left?

[Snooch]

Fair enough, how many were left?

40 something I think, I didnt save the workbook.

[OldSkoolCool]

LOL We're back on this debate ... bummer.

It was mentioned a few times before I decidedto butt in

All I'm saying is Waiters is more TALENTED....but isn't BETTER.

After he was traded to OKC and I got to see him in a better situation the ship set sail.

[JWash]

Lol let's assume for a second that Waiters is, in fact more talented than DD.

What's the releveance? The dude sucks and is only still in the league because he was a very high pick. He's had tons of opportunity to showcase his skills in both Cleveland (Kyrie was hurt often so he was often the #1 option, and always at least #2) and OKC (with Durant hurt he had a chance to step up).

Dude is straight up garbage. Can't finish, handles are overrated, not a consistent shooter, tunnel vision, short, garbage.

Stop bringing up his name next to DeMar's, the guy is WORSE than Nick Young.

[JWash]

Stop fucking talking about Dion Waiters in here, he is a scrub. As Stephen A Smith would say, "I'm allergic to scrubs", "the boy can't play", "comparing him to DD? That's blasphemous."

Dude is a freaking BUST. Period. Picked #4 over Lillard, over Drummond, over Barnes, hell even ROSS is a superior player. STOP

[Joey]

Stop fucking talking about Dion Waiters in here, he is a scrub. As Stephen A Smith would say, "I'm allergic to scrubs", "the boy can't play", "comparing him to DD? That's blasphemous."

Dude is a freaking BUST. Period. Picked #4 over Lillard, over Drummond, over Barnes, hell even ROSS is a superior player. STOP

Easy does it champ. Let's not go around telling people what to effing talk about... not good form.
If you don't want to talk about it, then that's cool. But there are people that want to respond to OSC's claim I guess. I think its bogus, but then, I had that debate with OSC over a year ago.