Everything Derozan

[mcHAPPY]

This.^

It's always been about this. The great debate.....Could Demar improve his shot selection? Could he be more than an inefficient chucker?

His supporters said yes. His doubters said they had 6 years of evidence to the contrary.

Gotta respect McHappy for owning up.

Wish some others would do the same.


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No, it isn't that simple.

His supporters defended his style of play like a starved dog protecting a bowl of kibble.

That was the heart of the debate.

There were very few, if any, DeRozan supportors who ever questioned the need for him to change his style of play. It seems like it was always about his teammates not being good enough or no one else able to create a shot.


Actually that create a shot is the very essence of the debate. His supporters pointed to him personally creating a shot while his critics wanted to see the team make a shot.


I think it all comes down to a very distinct difference in mindset towards the game itself.

[raptors999]

It's a quarter of a season with alot of games against bad defenses. Until he faces every team multiple times and the playoffs its still too early. I like Demar but small sample size relative to his entire career

[Wild-ling#1]

No, it isn't that simple.

His supporters defended his style of play like a starved dog protecting a bowl of kibble.

That was the heart of the debate.

For my part I was just trying to show some appreciation for a hard-working leader on our team. I listened carefully to his critics ... and learned some things, I think. cool. There are some knowledgeable writers on this site - on all sides of any debate.

But he was also very much maligned. There can't be much doubt about that, can there? So I took his part - never claiming, though, that I was any sort of guru ... or that he was flawless ...

[Cody73]

I do now want DeMar back.




Nuff said. Leaving the thread now. Goodnight.

[golden]

Well, that's two things - could he change, and does it have anything to do with the work he puts in over the summer - I'd his esteemed work ethic. I maintain my stance that no matter the work he put in, this level of play was unachievable for him without a drastic change in mindset, which thankfully he appears to have had.

I certainly didn't expect him to "get it" though (not that it was necessarily unlikely to ever happen, but in any one particular summer this late in his career it seemed not to be a safe bet). It's very impressive the changes he's made.

I'm not all that surprised and actually don't think Derozan has changed THAT much. A little better decision making, a few less long 2's, little better drive/kick tweaks. But IMO, he flashed the potential to be an elite offensive player 2 seasons ago when he surpassed the 25USG / 110ORTG mark for the first time (28/110).

However, (1) last season's complete and utter distortion of the offense, (2) his injury & (3) opposing team's game-planning for DD/Lowry, took Demar off that natural career progression. IMO, this season he is simply returning to that status (28.8/110), but it could have gone either way: (a) either 2013-14 was a fluke, or (b) last season's disaster wasn't his fault. People shouldn't be surprised because he had it in him 2 seasons ago.

[special1]

Everything Demar Derozan

I'm not all that surprised and actually don't think Derozan has changed THAT much. A little better decision making, a few less long 2's, little better drive/kick tweaks. But IMO, he flashed the potential to be an elite offensive player 2 seasons ago when he surpassed the 25USG / 110ORTG mark for the first time (28/110).

However, (1) last season's complete and utter distortion of the offense, (2) his injury & (3) opposing team's game-planning for DD/Lowry, took Demar off that natural career progression. IMO, this season he is simply returning to that status (28.8/110), but it could have gone either way: (a) either 2013-14 was a fluke, or (b) last season's disaster wasn't his fault. People shouldn't be surprised because he had it in him 2 seasons ago.

This.^

We had evidence (2013-14) that Demar can play really well. The last two months of last season (minus the playoffs) was enough evidence to suggest that he could do it again. The reason for the crow comments is due to the fact that many said it was a fluke and pointed to 6 years of evidence. Months and months of inefficient chucker comments...

#ProveEm

Remember?

It wasn't easy supporting Demar when the mob and pitch forks were out every single day. Can't we say we told you so?

I know it seems childish and it probably is. But it does feel good considering the backlash I personally faced on a daily basis.

So I say suck it up, for now. Everyone wins when Demar plays like this.




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[JWash]

golden makes some good points. The shot distribution is a fine tuning of the game we saw in 2013-14 and towards the end of 2014-15. It's not a colossal, out of nowhere change like some are making it out to be.

[Wild-ling#1]

Jimmy Butler is really fucking good. Offensively he's DD with more range, more explosiveness (which is why he's able to get more attempts at the rim) and worse playmaking (the gap in efficiency between the two has decreased though, DD is only 1.4% behind in TS%). Defensively there's no comparison, Butler's up there with Kawhi and George almost on that end, while DD's average.

It's not a matter of can DD guard Butler. He's gotten lit up by him in the past couple of matchups, but I assume he can to an extent, but logic says put your best wing defender (Carroll) on the other team's best wing scorer. DD won't be guarding Butler much this game.

Appreciate it.

[mcHAPPY]

I'm not all that surprised and actually don't think Derozan has changed THAT much. A little better decision making, a few less long 2's, little better drive/kick tweaks. But IMO, he flashed the potential to be an elite offensive player 2 seasons ago when he surpassed the 25USG / 110ORTG mark for the first time (28/110).

However, (1) last season's complete and utter distortion of the offense, (2) his injury & (3) opposing team's game-planning for DD/Lowry, took Demar off that natural career progression. IMO, this season he is simply returning to that status (28.8/110), but it could have gone either way: (a) either 2013-14 was a fluke, or (b) last season's disaster wasn't his fault. People shouldn't be surprised because he had it in him 2 seasons ago.

I haven't compared the stats of post-Gay 2013-14 DD compared to this 2015-16 version.

I'm just going off my recollection and memory.

But I feel this years version is superior to the 2013-14 post-Gay version.

[golden]

This.^

We had evidence (2013-14) that Demar can play really well. The last two months of last season (minus the playoffs) was enough evidence to suggest that he could do it again. The reason for the crow comments is due to the fact that many said it was a fluke and pointed to 6 years of evidence. Months and months of inefficient chucker comments...

#ProveEm

Remember?

It wasn't easy supporting Demar when the mob and pitch forks were out every single day. Can't we say we told you so?

I know it seems childish and it probably is. But it does feel good considering the backlash I personally faced on a daily basis.

So I say suck it up, for now. Everyone wins when Demar plays like this.




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Still too early to be serving up the festive crow menu. We've seen flashbacks to last season's ISO overload at times this season, so I'm reserving opinion until the playoffs. Again, I don't fault DD as much for this. When you become a winning team, the game becomes increasingly about adjustments and adapting. Last season the Raps bolted out of the gate early, which made them a prime target for opposing teams to game-plan and Demar and Casey adapted terribly.

Even after Demar's red hot finish down the stretch last season, his game was obliterated in the playoffs by some simple game-planning by Randy Wittman (of all coaches). IMO, the adjustments Demar/Casey are making this season could easily have been made in-season, last year - small things (shot selection, decision making,...) that shouldn't have taken one whole season to realize and change. Still relying on factors out of your control, i.e., getting to the foul line to be efficient. So, color me delighted and not surprised he's repeating 2013-14, but I would also not be surprised if Demar/Casey gets stopped in their tracks again in the playoffs and not knowing how or being capable of adapting. I really, really want to be proven wrong on that.

[special1]

Everything Demar Derozan

Still too early to be serving up the festive crow menu. We've seen flashbacks to last season's ISO overload at times this season, so I'm reserving opinion until the playoffs. Again, I don't fault DD as much for this. When you become a winning team, the game becomes increasingly about adjustments and adapting. Last season the Raps bolted out of the gate early, which made them a prime target for opposing teams to game-plan and Demar and Casey adapted terribly.

Even after Demar's red hot finish down the stretch last season, his game was obliterated in the playoffs by some simple game-planning by Randy Wittman (of all coaches). IMO, the adjustments Demar/Casey are making this season could easily have been made in-season, last year - small things (shot selection, decision making,...) that shouldn't have taken one whole season to realize and change. Still relying on factors out of your control, i.e., getting to the foul line to be efficient. So, color me delighted and not surprised he's repeating 2013-14, but I would also not be surprised if Demar/Casey gets stopped in their tracks again in the playoffs and not knowing how or being capable of adapting. I really, really want to be proven wrong on that.

Sure. But what about Lowry? You seriously think we can win if he plays similar to how he played in Last year's playoffs?

Truthfully, I'm more concerned about Lowry sustaining his play more than anything else. This team depends on Kyle Lowry playing well.


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[Barolt]

Sure. But what about Lowry? You seriously think we can win if he plays similar to how he played in Last year's playoffs?

Truthfully, I'm more concerned about Lowry sustaining his play more than anything else. This team depends on Kyle Lowry playing well.


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You seen Lowry's December splits? He's fallen off hard already.

[Barolt]

I gotta ask the question, because this occurred to me watching our bench unit shit the bed in the second quarter tonight.

Can someone explain to me why it wouldn't work having DeMar come off the bench in a Ginobili role? Ginobili for years has played starter minutes in San Antonio, but come off the bench early in the fourth to ease the number of minutes without a shot creator on the floor for the team.

We have a problem where we have a lot of shot makers, but no shot creators on our bench. DeMar coming off the bench not only allows the team to always have a creator out there, but also puts DeMar in a situation where he can be the primary ball handler for more minutes, letting him get into the flow of his own offense and use his(admittedly improving) passing skills to get the bench guys going.

Then in the crunch time minutes, you can go back to Lowry/DeMar, pick 2 of Scola/Ross/Carroll/JJ/Pat based on matchups and whose shot is falling, and JV. This just makes sense to me. I know there's no way DeMar is going to be a 6th man, I just want to hear an argument why it wouldn't work.

Keep in mind, I'm not arguing for a reduction in his minutes, or a reduction in his usage(in all likelihood, it might even go up in this scenario), or saying that DeMar shouldn't be an all-star(Ginobili was several times while coming off the bench). I'm just saying let him come off the bench so he's on the floor during those second quarter stretches like the one that killed us tonight.

[raptors999]

I gotta ask the question, because this occurred to me watching our bench unit shit the bed in the second quarter tonight.

Can someone explain to me why it wouldn't work having DeMar come off the bench in a Ginobili role? Ginobili for years has played starter minutes in San Antonio, but come off the bench early in the fourth to ease the number of minutes without a shot creator on the floor for the team.

We have a problem where we have a lot of shot makers, but no shot creators on our bench. DeMar coming off the bench not only allows the team to always have a creator out there, but also puts DeMar in a situation where he can be the primary ball handler for more minutes, letting him get into the flow of his own offense and use his(admittedly improving) passing skills to get the bench guys going.

Then in the crunch time minutes, you can go back to Lowry/DeMar, pick 2 of Scola/Ross/Carroll/JJ/Pat based on matchups and whose shot is falling, and JV. This just makes sense to me. I know there's no way DeMar is going to be a 6th man, I just want to hear an argument why it wouldn't work.

Keep in mind, I'm not arguing for a reduction in his minutes, or a reduction in his usage(in all likelihood, it might even go up in this scenario), or saying that DeMar shouldn't be an all-star(Ginobili was several times while coming off the bench). I'm just saying let him come off the bench so he's on the floor during those second quarter stretches like the one that killed us tonight.

Demar and Lowry play alot already. Fire the idiot coach and spread the offense out. If a unit cant score for 5-10 minute stop using it that way

[Barolt]

Demar and Lowry play alot already. Fire the idiot coach and spread the offense out. If a unit cant score for 5-10 minute stop using it that way

I agree, and I'm arguing in favor of the same things, but you didn't really respond to the hypothetical I proposed.