Bargnani Trade Idea Thread

[Soft Euro]

I agree with Matt on the Wallace-trade.

For Toronto: Wallace relies on his athleticism for his game and is pushing 30. I do like his game a lot, but I don't like his skills envisioning that he starts to lose that athleticism. If we trade for him with the intention of re-signing him after his contract we will likely have to overpay for an underperformance. If we trade him just to get a shorter contract back, let's try something better. What's worse: he might actually improve our result now, totally out of sync with the rebuilding (the immediate improvement at the sf position would be much greater than the loss at pf considering the talent on our roster - even the Bargnani fans will probably agree with this).

For Portland: they have some big questionmarks with Oden and Roy. If Oden does not come back and perform (considering his career so far that seems likely - unfortunately) they need an athletic big to pair with Aldridge. I don't think they compliment each other well.

Nevertheless, Portland has too much talent at the sf-position in Wallace and Batum because of the other needs to adress (what if Oden and Roy don't come back at a reasonable level, and how about the backup big). So, it's not unlikely they are looking to trade one or the other. I'd prefer to see a trade for Batum, even though he has some 'enigma'-danger as well.

Just yesterday I read a piece on a blazersforum (via the point forward / si) where these questions were debated in the comments.

[mcHAPPY]

A slight variation of trade in post #210:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=82th4jh

TOR: Gay, Ridnour, Pekovic
MEM: Bargnani, Beasley
MIN: Calderon, Mayo

[stretch]

I would look at it as providing more playing time and experience to a group of young players who have yet to show their abilities in the league. Many fans are banking on these players being the future of the franchise. There would be no better way to find out if Bayless, JJ, ED, DD, and Alabi are here for the long term than trial by fire.

I have no patience to watch the losses mount as these babies get their feet wet. Enough already. Some franchises build winners through the draft with luck (Thunder, Spurs) but it's not a sure thing to build a winner through lottery picks (Wizards, Kings). The Grizzlies should be the role model to follow with some draft pick hits (Gay, Conley) and misses (Thabeet and not hanging onto Love) but solid trade acquisitions (Randolf, Gasol, Battier) with the odd free agent signing (Allen) have put them into the top echelon of NBA teams.

[mcHAPPY]

I have no patience to watch the losses mount as these babies get their feet wet. Enough already. Some franchises build winners through the draft with luck (Thunder, Spurs) but it's not a sure thing to build a winner through lottery picks (Wizards, Kings). The Grizzlies should be the role model to follow with some draft pick hits (Gay, Conley) and misses (Thabeet and not hanging onto Love) but solid trade acquisitions (Randolf, Gasol, Battier) with the odd free agent signing (Allen) have put them into the top echelon of NBA teams.

That is premature. They were an 8th seed last season with a deep playoff push. Lower seeded teams make playoff drives only to get sent back to purgatory the following year.

Don't get me wrong, you may be right but, in my opinion, labeling the Griz top echelon at this point in time is premature.

Also the Grizzlies had seasons of 22, 22, 24, and 40 wins before making the playoffs last year since their last playoff appearance. The Raptors have had 33, 40, and 22 wins since their last appearance.

I think the expectations are unrealistic for '11-12 considering and, if you have no patience, the Raptors are not the team to be following for the next season or two.

[stretch]

Yeah, but it's not one or two years. It's 16, with acknowledgement to 2001 (god bless Oakley and AD) and counting.......

[mcHAPPY]

Yeah, but it's not one or two years. It's 16, with acknowledgement to 2001 (god bless Oakley and AD) and counting.......

Fair enough but the MEM model is hardly the one to strive for.

Here is the franchise history of Memphis/Vancouver: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MEM/

Here is the franchise history of Toronto: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/TOR/

Neither franchise is one to brag about. The only difference is Memphis had a good season and playoff run last year. This wreaks of 'what have you done for me lately?'. It is only my opinion but one more difficult season whereby the babies can get their feet wet to improve for the long haul (or increase their trade value) should have the franchise set for the next 5-10 years.

History is certainly not on my side but, again, just my opinion.

[RAPresenting]

Wallace wouldn't come to TO so building a trade around him isn't ideal. Not to mention what they game up for him (2 1st round picks) means they aren't discounting on his resale. If your looking for a deal with the Blazers Batum would definitely be the wing to target. Big fan of Wes Matthews as well but he's a stud and an incredibly insurance policy for Roy so no chance the Blazers are moving him.

[Hugmenot]

I would look at it as providing more playing time and experience to a group of young players who have yet to show their abilities in the league. Many fans are banking on these players being the future of the franchise. There would be no better way to find out if Bayless, JJ, ED, DD, and Alabi are here for the long term than trial by fire.

Do you write political speeches or marketing material for a living?

[mcHAPPY]

Do you write political speeches or marketing material for a living?

Can you think of a better way for Bayless, JJ, ED, DD, and Alabi to show their potential or value in the league other than playing regular season games?

*EDIT* I took this comment as sarcasm. If it is not, I apologize for answering a question with a question. The answer to your question is no. If it is sarcasm, the question remains.

[Hugmenot]

Can you think of a better way for Bayless, JJ, ED, DD, and Alabi to show their potential or value in the league other than playing regular season games?

No need to apologize; it was sarcasm.

You show their potential or value by giving them significant minutes in situations they can handle or are somewhat of a stretch; not by forcing major minutes upon them in situations they are almost certain to fail.

I think it's part of the reason many posters perceive Bargnani's value as very low; he was continuously put in very difficult situations last year. Not that he did not suck at help defense last year (he did); but being put in a situation where he is not good and compounding it by putting him on a floor with such a weak defensive group just makes it more difficult to progress as a defender.

[mcHAPPY]

No need to apologize; it was sarcasm.

You show their potential or value by giving them significant minutes in situations they can handle or are somewhat of a stretch; not by forcing major minutes upon them in situations they are almost certain to fail.

I think it's part of the reason many posters perceive Bargnani's value as very low; he was continuously put in very difficult situations last year. Not that he did not suck at help defense last year (he did); but being put in a situation where he is not good and compounding it by putting him on a floor with such a weak defensive group just makes it more difficult to progress as a defender.

I'm not one for coddling.... especially professional athletes. These are men, albeit young men.

The only inexperienced player who possibly meets the 'forcing major minutes upon them' is Alabi. ED, DD, Bayless, and JJ all played significant minutes last year. This year would be more of the same except giving Alabi more minutes and, hopefully, having Bayless start.

How are players to develop and progress without major minutes? How are players to be evaluated giving a clear indication of their ability without major minutes?

I'm ignoring Bargnani comments. There is a thread for him and this has all been discussed before with him.

[tenforthewin]

1) Tank and get Anthony Davis
2) Trade Andrea Bargnani + Jerryd Bayless + Linas Kleiza to the Grizzlies for Rudy Gay + Josh Selby + 2012 1st round pick
3) Trade Jose Calderon + Leandro Barbosa + Solomon Alabi to the Wolves for Luke Ridnour + Martel Webster + Nikola Pekovic
4) Draft Kendall Marshall (Future PG)
5) Draft Dee Bost (Third string PG)
6) Mode Amir Johnson as a backup C

2012-13 Lineups
Marshall/Ridnour/Bosert
DeRozan/Selby/Weems
Gay/Webster/J.Johnson
A.Davis/E.Davis/J.Dorsey
J.Valanciunas/A.Johnson/N.Pekovic

[planetmars]

Indiana/Utah/Toronto

Indiana is interested in Paul Millsap according to this article:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsja...z-nba.html.csp

Toronto can help negotiate a deal:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=7nmbr5h

Indiana gets Millsap.

Utah gets Bargnani

Toronto gets Okur and Indiana's first round pick.

Indiana's only asset leaving is their first rounder. Utah gets Bargnani - a young serviceable big with offense, and unloads about $9 million in salary without using an amnesty clause to remain under the tax threshold.

Toronto gets a backup center with an expiring contract and a potential lottery pick. We'll have no offense next year, but we could have 2 lottery picks in 2012, and be out from under Bargnani's contract so we could go after Gay or another top FA.

[ceez]

I'd be all for that

[planetmars]

I've been thinking about my proposed trade a bit.. I'm not sure if Indiana will be a lottery team or not. Last year they had the 15th pick (traded to San Antonio). That might net us Kabongo though. Is Bargnani worth Kabongo and cap space?

It's hard to guage what Bargnani might be worth in the league. I don't like any of Indiana's other players, unless they give us someone like Paul George - but that's reaching.