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  • LBF wrote: View Post
    Heinz, you keep on saying excluding Hendricks and stuff. But, don't you think that considering the rumours that were flying around leading up to the fight that GSP would retire and now, the fact that he has semi-retired. He's clearly over-whelmed by whatever is going on in his personal life and has been since before that fight. Do you not think that played a factor in the fight?

    It just seems like you're giving Hendricks way too much credit. He didn't even win the fight. Regardless, if that was a bit of a screw job by the judges. He didn't knock GSP out, nor did he submit him. Here's a guy that was knocking guys out left,right and centre. Which is what got him a shot at the belt and he lets it go to decision or maybe, GSP is just that tough. He gave GSP the greatest fight of his career, but it's still arguable whether he actually beat him. What happens if Lawler beats him? Does that make Hendricks a flash in the pan or does that mean that Lawler could hypothetically beat GSP?
    if Lawler wins, Hendricks will be a top flight fighter who lost to a quality opponent... Hendricks didn't get to where he is by fighting chumps... He's demolished studs on his route to GSP... he's hardly a flash in the pan

    and never try to resort to MMA-Math to determine who can beat who.... its a broken logic

    personal matters effect nothing in the cage..... and by that, I don't mean they wouldn't effect GSP... I mean, I don't care... when the cage door closes... fuck your life... FIGHT

    GSP did not win the fight. By any sense of the word FIGHT, he clearly didn't win it.

    He 100% won the contest.

    Comment


    • Well Hendricks is a LHW

      Comment


      • heinz57 wrote: View Post
        if Lawler wins, Hendricks will be a top flight fighter who lost to a quality opponent... Hendricks didn't get to where he is by fighting chumps... He's demolished studs on his route to GSP... he's hardly a flash in the pan

        and never try to resort to MMA-Math to determine who can beat who.... its a broken logic

        personal matters effect nothing in the cage..... and by that, I don't mean they wouldn't effect GSP... I mean, I don't care... when the cage door closes... fuck your life... FIGHT

        GSP did not win the fight. By any sense of the word FIGHT, he clearly didn't win it.

        He 100% won the contest.

        Well, if he 100% won the contest than he'd be champ. I mean you can't argue that..
        If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

        Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

        Comment


        • If the whole point of the UFC, besides knocking someone out, is to score more hits than your opponent over a 15 minute Period, than GSP won. He technically landed more Significant Strikes, and scored more take downs.


          According to the chart, these scores make sense. In the unanimously scored rounds the fighter who won was indeed the more successful striker. Had I graphed “attempts” rather than landed strikes, the chart would look the same, with the more active fighter winning the exact same rounds.

          The disagreement in round one corresponds to the closest round of all. Was it a coin flip that just happened to cause the judges to give the benefit of the doubt to the champion? Each fighter landed one takedown, and almost exactly the same number of significant strikes. But what else happened? According to FightMetric, St-Pierre attempted 36 significant strikes, and 48 total strikes (strikes that aren’t “significant” are jabs in the clinch or on the ground) in round one.

          Meanwhile, Hendricks attempted 26 significant strikes and 37 in total. St-Pierre also had one unsuccessful submission attempt. So St-Pierre was the more active fighter in the round despite having lower overall accuracy. And there’s the trick. Judges can’t count every strike that lands, and they don’t have any access to statistics during the course of a fight. So what they’re left with is an impression of who was more active, which likely led to the award of round one to St-Pierre for two out of three judges. On the other hand, for Trowbridge to have given the round to Hendricks, it must mean that the effectiveness of his striking trumps the volume from St-Pierre. Who is right?
          Source
          Last edited by Joey; Wed Dec 18, 2013, 09:27 AM.

          Comment


          • Craig wrote: View Post
            Well Hendricks is a LHW

            lol... you're not getting an argument from me on that, for the simple reason that I have serious concerns about weight cutting in MMA... Kenny Florian has fought in what, 4 weight classes? It's absolutely insane that Gleison Tibau is a lightweight..

            it's a serious health concern... I honestly believe it's wreaking havoc on fighters' long term health more than getting the shit kicked out of them

            Comment


            • LBF wrote: View Post
              Well, if he 100% won the contest than he'd be champ. I mean you can't argue that..
              you're correct.

              never said he wasn't the champ. I won't argue that.

              by the unified rules of MMA as dictated by the NSAC.. GSP won. He's the champ. Or at least, he went out the champ (because, technically, he isn't the champ anymore).

              by the rules of ass kickery... as dictated by two dudes wailing on each other and seeing who walks away looking more like a savage... Hendricks won.

              it's unfortunately been a very long time since winning the fight and winning the contest were the same thing.

              Comment


              • heinz57 wrote: View Post
                lol... you're not getting an argument from me on that, for the simple reason that I have serious concerns about weight cutting in MMA... Kenny Florian has fought in what, 4 weight classes? It's absolutely insane that Gleison Tibau is a lightweight..

                it's a serious health concern... I honestly believe it's wreaking havoc on fighters' long term health more than getting the shit kicked out of them
                Its also hurting guys who don't cut as much. GSP isnt a big guy, he has to fight some seriously big dudes sometimes. If alves had cut smarter he'd have been tougher too. The UFC DOESN'T want to fix it, they like the size disparity because the like when guys beat the shit out of the other guy. Dana and company are insincere about how much they respect GSP, and Dana was ecstatic that Hendricks was 200+ because he really wanted to see a beatdown, hence his fury at the end of the fight. It could be fixed, same day weigh ins with high ranking stand ins could be arranged with even a tinybit of advanced scheduling.

                But why fix the problem if it leads to lopsided fights and brutal damage in a sport that is seeing less as fighters are all getting amazing and countering damage. Its the weak way out, and anything that lacks integrity always takes that route in the end.

                Comment


                • heinz57 wrote: View Post
                  you're correct.

                  never said he wasn't the champ. I won't argue that.

                  by the unified rules of MMA as dictated by the NSAC.. GSP won. He's the champ. Or at least, he went out the champ (because, technically, he isn't the champ anymore).

                  by the rules of ass kickery... as dictated by two dudes wailing on each other and seeing who walks away looking more like a savage... Hendricks won.

                  it's unfortunately been a very long time since winning the fight and winning the contest were the same thing.
                  Only unfortunate if you want to see the sport go back to the underground without a sanction. You can't sanction a "fight".

                  Comment


                  • Craig wrote: View Post
                    Its also hurting guys who don't cut as much. GSP isnt a big guy, he has to fight some seriously big dudes sometimes. If alves had cut smarter he'd have been tougher too. The UFC DOESN'T want to fix it, they like the size disparity because the like when guys beat the shit out of the other guy. Dana and company are insincere about how much they respect GSP, and Dana was ecstatic that Hendricks was 200+ because he really wanted to see a beatdown, hence his fury at the end of the fight. It could be fixed, same day weigh ins with high ranking stand ins could be arranged with even a tinybit of advanced scheduling.

                    But why fix the problem if it leads to lopsided fights and brutal damage in a sport that is seeing less as fighters are all getting amazing and countering damage. Its the weak way out, and anything that lacks integrity always takes that route in the end.
                    same day weigh ins lead to a whole new set of problems though...

                    unfortunately, there is a solution.... but nobody would be willing to jump through all the hoops to get it fixed.. plus, the complications that would arise for the UFC...

                    the solution really is the same as the drug problem... random testing for all fighting during fight camps.... and include a maximum training weight while in camp.. to ensure there's a percentage threshold for cut weight.

                    but there's a couple hitches there...

                    1. The UFC's tagline of "we're regulated by the government"... and they're right... getting the government to change anything at all, ever.. not even just in MMA... just getting to them to change minor wording in their rules would require months and months of committee meetings

                    2. How do you punish the fighters for failing? a fine? well, if you're main eventing a PPV, a fine would barely scratch your wallet... cancel a fight? ya, that would go over well... cancelling a main event... or even a main card fight... the ufc show in Calgary was possibly the worst MMA show I've watched ever, thanks to cancelled fights... and not worst UFC show... worst MMA show... Worse that BoDog, Ring of Fire, BAMMA... I don't think I've ever seen anything that bad before... hell, UFC 151 was outright cancelled because Jonny Jones refused to fight Sonnen on late notice

                    it's all loopholes and horseshit... there are clear ways to improve the sport... but horseshit muddies the clear road..

                    Comment


                    • Craig wrote: View Post
                      Only unfortunate if you want to see the sport go back to the underground without a sanction. You can't sanction a "fight".
                      of course not... but, you can alter the rules to simulate a fight as much as possible..

                      I'm hate to bring up this argument... I've done it ad nauseum in real life... and its a no-win situation... but I really did prefer Pride rules... where a fight was judged as a whole, and not round by round...

                      Pride had a lot of flaws... barbaric non-rules like soccer kicking... basically being run by gangsters... fight fixing.. etc.. but their judging was the best MMA ever had

                      Comment


                      • heinz57 wrote: View Post
                        you're correct.

                        never said he wasn't the champ. I won't argue that.

                        by the unified rules of MMA as dictated by the NSAC.. GSP won. He's the champ. Or at least, he went out the champ (because, technically, he isn't the champ anymore).

                        by the rules of ass kickery... as dictated by two dudes wailing on each other and seeing who walks away looking more like a savage... Hendricks won.

                        it's unfortunately been a very long time since winning the fight and winning the contest were the same thing.
                        Yeah, I agree with you there. On pure savagery and ass-kicking Henricks won. But, then again GSP bruises so god damn easily that he'd have a few more losses to his record than he actually did.
                        If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                        Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

                        Comment


                        • heinz57 wrote: View Post
                          same day weigh ins lead to a whole new set of problems though...

                          unfortunately, there is a solution.... but nobody would be willing to jump through all the hoops to get it fixed.. plus, the complications that would arise for the UFC...

                          the solution really is the same as the drug problem... random testing for all fighting during fight camps.... and include a maximum training weight while in camp.. to ensure there's a percentage threshold for cut weight.

                          but there's a couple hitches there...

                          1. The UFC's tagline of "we're regulated by the government"... and they're right... getting the government to change anything at all, ever.. not even just in MMA... just getting to them to change minor wording in their rules would require months and months of committee meetings

                          2. How do you punish the fighters for failing? a fine? well, if you're main eventing a PPV, a fine would barely scratch your wallet... cancel a fight? ya, that would go over well... cancelling a main event... or even a main card fight... the ufc show in Calgary was possibly the worst MMA show I've watched ever, thanks to cancelled fights... and not worst UFC show... worst MMA show... Worse that BoDog, Ring of Fire, BAMMA... I don't think I've ever seen anything that bad before... hell, UFC 151 was outright cancelled because Jonny Jones refused to fight Sonnen on late notice

                          it's all loopholes and horseshit... there are clear ways to improve the sport... but horseshit muddies the clear road..
                          Let a few guys rise to the top and then lose everything by not making weight.

                          Problem solved pretty fast. trust me. but youre right, it would mean the UFC taking a hit, but it would be better for the sport...

                          Hell could freeze over too. Its not a sport, its fighting, run by gangsters.

                          anyhow, no matter.... I watch it so my hands arent so clean hahaha

                          Comment


                          • heinz57 wrote: View Post
                            of course not... but, you can alter the rules to simulate a fight as much as possible..

                            I'm hate to bring up this argument... I've done it ad nauseum in real life... and its a no-win situation... but I really did prefer Pride rules... where a fight was judged as a whole, and not round by round...

                            Pride had a lot of flaws... barbaric non-rules like soccer kicking... basically being run by gangsters... fight fixing.. etc.. but their judging was the best MMA ever had
                            I liked Pride rules.

                            GSP was made for Pride. He would have finished 3/4 of his fights with knees to the head on the ground.

                            Comment


                            • Craig wrote: View Post
                              I liked Pride rules.

                              GSP was made for Pride. He would have finished 3/4 of his fights with knees to the head on the ground.
                              Shogun was a monster over there... If it wasn't for my personal opinions of soccer kicks being a dirty tactic... I'd easily rank him highly on my all-time favourites...

                              I will say, he did master the art of using live human heads as soccer balls..

                              Comment


                              • heinz57 wrote: View Post
                                Shogun was a monster over there... If it wasn't for my personal opinions of soccer kicks being a dirty tactic... I'd easily rank him highly on my all-time favourites...

                                I will say, he did master the art of using live human heads as soccer balls..
                                made me laugh

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