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  • raptorsking wrote: View Post
    finding a legit C is harder than it sounds, and the only reason bargs stays is because we are the only ones dumb enough to throw 50 mill on him.
    Fair enough. I can think of one legitimate center that will be sitting at about the same spot on the draft board as we will. Draft a Kanter, use Davis to get some serious return. .. I hate saying this. Bargnani drives me crazy! And Ed Davis is exactly the kind of guy I like. At the same time, I know I'll be watching him walk in a couple years. Colangelo seems to recognize the unique problems this market poses and I think he's really trying to address it with some Euro players who are comfortable calling this home. I could see an Ed Davis package bringing in Ricky Rubio. Ughh.. Living in Toronto makes building a basketball team a completely different monster..

    Comment


    • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
      Yes there is.

      Want to fight about it?
      whenever i find myself getting into an internet argument, i also remember that the internet also hosts a plethora of free porn.

      tits win over proving my points.

      Comment


      • Multipaul wrote: View Post
        Nope. Read SI's brilliant article today posted by ours truly, Apollo. Reads like "Bargnani deserves his 8.5 million".
        Can someone post a link for that please?

        Comment


        • RaptorFan (proud?..) wrote: View Post
          As much as I completely agree with everyone's assessment of Bargnani.. is there ANY WAY that he could work here? If we found a legitimate center and slid him to PF (yes I remember the Jermaine O'Neil project) could we do it? The reality is this.. American players legitimately don't want to be here the same way they want to be back home. I want to be excited about DD and Ed.. I really do. But I saw the face Ed made when we took him and I know there's a big chance that Demar will be lured away to brighter lights when his time comes. But Bargnani.. for some reason that big ol' Italian likes us. He's got a long contract and we'd be able to extend him if we chose to. He could play PF in a similar fashion to say, Rashard Lewis, and we'd find a center who actually plays center.
          Here in the great white north we don't find a tonne of guys with staying power
          If you start making personnel decisions based on whether or not you think a guy would be thrilled or not to be in Toronto, you've already failed. You've got to make your decisions based on what they do on the court. While Toronto has had some difficulty attracting top tier free agent talent, who knows whether that was because it's Toronto or because they simply have never been a great team. MOST teams have had some trouble attracting top tier free agents. If you aren't the Lakers, Boston, New York or in Florida, you're probably going to have some trouble unless you're a contender, something the Raptors have never, ever been.

          The Raptors have not lost their players due to the team being in Canada. They've lost players due to various reasons that all came down to them being unhappy with the direction of the team. Give a player a good reason to stay and they most likely will.

          As for Davis, I took his reaction more being annoyed at how far he fell. Considering he was projected to go 6th or 7th, he lost out on $1 million by going 13th. I'd probably be pissed too if I'd lost out on $1 million.

          Now, while I'm one of the most vocal Bargnani critics, he's obviously a skilled player. Unfortunately the fact that he's a liability half the time he's on the court, makes it incredibly difficult to win with him playing a prominent roll. The comparison to Rashard Lewis is fine on the surface, but while the were both outside shooting bigs who couldn't rebound, Lewis was actually a decent help defender. His biggest weakness was defending the stronger PFs, but that's where Dwight Howard could help. You can't cover up someone being a poor help defender nearly as much.

          And while Bargnani is certainly a skilled offensive player, he's not otherworldly, so jumping through hoops to try and figure out how to win with him isn't worth it. If the Raptors do get a legit center, I'd much rather have Ed Davis as the future starting PF than Bargnani. That would give you a LOT better chance of being successful.
          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
          Follow me on Twitter.

          Comment


          • madeupid25 wrote: View Post
            Can someone post a link for that please?
            http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1J1DcV4mi

            It was on another thread. It's not an article about Bargnani. It simply mentions that he's worth his salary, but doesn't back it up at all. Of course that same website wrote another article bashing Bargnani's lack of defense.
            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
            Follow me on Twitter.

            Comment


            • Tim W. wrote: View Post
              http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1J1DcV4mi

              It was on another thread. It's not an article about Bargnani. It simply mentions that he's worth his salary, but doesn't back it up at all. Of course that same website wrote another article bashing Bargnani's lack of defense.
              Thanks. I think trading Bargnani would benefit this team, and I think that enough time has passed since he was drafted that BC would make such a move if he thought he was getting decent value in return. At this point I think getting rid of AB would be addition by subtraction. His defensive flaws are apparent to most observers of this team. Too often we have to watch good post players (Bogut, Al Jefferson types) put up all star numbers when they play the Raptors because there is no legit centre to guard them. Its great having a guy who puts up 20 a game, but his value is at best neutral, and more likely negative when the opposing bigs dominate the paint. Time for Andrea to go, this team needs a new identity, and I would like that to start with more of a post presence.

              Comment


              • Stringer Bell wrote: View Post
                The grades are given for the current year and I believe that they are taking into account the players previous experience. We're not in a vacuum here, we were expecting certain things from Bargs.

                It's easy to bash on Bargnani because he does so many things horrible. In a year where he had the chance to be a leader, the go to guy for this squad, he totally plateaued. He didn't work hard over the summer, he didn't add anything to his game. He has glaring holes that he must obviously be aware of, at least I hope. Why could he not work on these things?? Defense and rebounding can be taught to a degree that offense cannot. It's effort and perseverance.

                As a raptors fan you should no longer defend Bargnani unless he is coming off of the bench for us. A player in his 5th year who looks identical to the previous 4 should not be given any credit.

                I bet 50% of recently retired NBA players could have scored what he did given how often he got touches and how many minutes a game he played.

                The guy deserves a D for disappointing.
                Yo String!

                I see you live up to your namesake, classic Stringer Bell. Easily manipulated by the Clay Davis' (Bargs Haters) of the world.

                Simple fact String, we win with Bargs, and usually lose without. He is our best player.

                Be more like Omar, or Brother Munzon. Live by a code. Don't get manipulated by all the negative haters out there!

                Comment


                • ebrian wrote: View Post
                  I've been reading a lot of posts from Multipaul and I'm just making an observation here. I'm not addressing him specifically. Personally I don't mind the guy.

                  I can understand often you read some of his posts and find them irritating. That's understandable because we've all arrived, after 5 years of this character (Bargnani, not the poster), to the conclusion that he's not the answer this team needs. But something inside this guy (Multipaul) is holding onto a piece of (Bargnani) and doesn't want to let go. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. What I don't get is why the need to try to convince him.

                  5 years ago, I was all for drafting Bargnani. I was the engineer driving the Bargnani or Bust train. After year 1, I was excited and I spread the Bargnani love around. After year 2, I toned myself down a bit but after Year 3, I was excited again. Throughout this time, I had people telling me I was stupid and that Bargnani wasn't the answer due to his awful defense, inability to rebound. They would say sure, he can score but he doesn't do anything you expect a C to do. Hell I wouldn't listen.. I'd say but he can shoot 3's damnit, and that's how I'd justify it. Well, then year 4 and year 5 came and went, and I watched this team suffer and it finally dawned on me. And I have to tell you, it wasn't from guys on forums who convinced me, it was the product on the floor, or lack thereof.

                  So the lesson is this: Let him arrive at the destination by himself. There's no point in exhausting yourself in trying to convince him otherwise. Just let him be, and if it's too irritating, scroll up to the top right, click on Settings, and add him to your Ignore list. Then install Boomerang on your gmail, and send yourself an email that will bounce to you in 2 months, a reminder to remove him from your Ignore list. If in 2 months he's still riding the Bargnani or Bust train, add him back to the ignore list and reset that timer for another 2 months, and so on.

                  And you might ask what's the point of that email. Well, the point is he's obviously a very passionate Raptors fan and who doesn't love that. Yes, it's taking him longer than others to arrive at the right conclusion, but that's okay. Eventually he'll figure it out and then you'll be missing out on some really quality fanboy posts.
                  Your Pal Ebrian, aka Hadi

                  Comment


                  • Multipaul wrote: View Post
                    Yo String!

                    I see you live up to your namesake, classic Stringer Bell. Easily manipulated by the Clay Davis' (Bargs Haters) of the world.

                    Simple fact String, we win with Bargs, and usually lose without. He is our best player.

                    Be more like Omar, or Brother Munzon. Live by a code. Don't get manipulated by all the negative haters out there!
                    We've lost more games with him in the lineup this year, then we have without him ... Fact.

                    Comment


                    • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                      We've lost more games with him in the lineup this year, then we have without him ... Fact.
                      You have to use a weighted average

                      Comment


                      • Multipaul wrote: View Post
                        You have to use a weighted average
                        A weighted average?
                        Please explain.

                        Comment


                        • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                          A weighted average?
                          Please explain.
                          See attached:

                          http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_weighted_average

                          Comment


                          • Multipaul wrote: View Post
                            Yo String!

                            I see you live up to your namesake, classic Stringer Bell. Easily manipulated by the Clay Davis' (Bargs Haters) of the world.

                            Simple fact String, we win with Bargs, and usually lose without. He is our best player.

                            Be more like Omar, or Brother Munzon. Live by a code. Don't get manipulated by all the negative haters out there!
                            cool story bro.

                            Comment


                            • ... I know what a weighted average is Multipaul.
                              I'm asking how YOU would apply this to Bargnani's case, to argue that "WE WIN WITH HIM."
                              Last edited by Joey; Wed Apr 13, 2011, 12:26 PM.

                              Comment


                              • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                                ... I know what a weighted average is Multipaul.
                                I'm asking how YOU would apply this to Bargnani's case, to argue that "WE WIN WITH HIM."
                                Minutes played, injuries, illnessess, other variables that effect one's performance

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