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Are Kemba Walker and Jerryd Bayless redundant?

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  • #46
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    I believe Bayless needs to earn the starting gig and what he did this year did not accomplish that. What kind of message does it send if Bayless were to be handed it just because he played here last season? If they draft a PG there should be a battle for it. If they don't draft a PG there still should be a battle for it.
    Bayless has earned the right to start next season. Obviously I wouldn't have argued as I did in this thread if I felt otherwise.

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    • #47
      he'll battle.That is Bayless we are talking about.One thing I almost never see in other players is his fire,his DESIRE to win.And those are the type of players that you WANT on your team.I'm sorry but as dumb as it seems I prefer to watch Bayless loose a game but to play like he did instead of watching a bad night for Calderon win.And by the way he earned the starting job with the way he played ALL season.Yes,I wrote all season.He played the way his coaches wanted him to play.Yea,he didn't produce that well off the bench some night but when he started he played great.In fact he played better than Calderon and until some of those rooks - Irvings,Walkers,knights show better performances than him they should keep their asses on the bench and work on their games to be better.I personally don't believe any one of them better than Bayless.I haven't seen them play a single minute in the NBA.Until that happens they aren't better than him.And if Walker and Bayless are redundant I wrote why that is again a good thing for your team in eez_bee's topic about redundancy.

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      • #48
        I rate Bayless higher than a lot of Raptor fans seem to. I love his fire, and I love his ability to get to the rim. I still think (and did before his end of the season tear) that he has all the tools to be a true blue chip.

        From what I've seen and read of Kemba, he looks like the next Jameer Nelson to me. I'd rather take a risk on another guy with elite potential (Valanciunas?) than take one with the potential to be good (Walker).

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        • #49
          What does a younger player have to do to "earn" the starters role over Jose Calderone?
          How about beating him in almost every category.
          This is from a post by Maleko.

          Okay, so side-by-side - Jerryd vs. Jose as starters - all stats, here we go:

          Points Produced / Pace Adjusted 36 minutes: Bayless 20.6, Calderon 14.8 (Bayless, + 5.8)
          % of Team's Possessions Borne Individually while on the floor: Bayless 24.5%, Calderon 19.1% (Bayless, + 5.4%)
          ORat: Bayless 121.9, Calderon 112.5 (Bayless, + 9.4)
          effective FG%: Bayless 53.7%, Calderon 50.5% (Bayless, 3.2%)
          True Shooting %: Bayless 59.1%, Calderon 53.4% (Bayless, 5.7%)
          Free throws / 100 Field Goal Attempts: Bayless 31.5, Calderon 13.1 (Bayless, + 18.4)
          Percentage of teammates' field goals assisted: Bayless 36.0%, Calderon 42.8% (Calderon, + 6.8%)
          Turnovers as percentage of Individual Possessions: Bayless 15.2%, Calderon 19.0% (Bayless, + 3.8%)
          Percentage of Total Available Rebounds Grabbed: Bayless 7.0%, Calderon, 5.9% (Bayless, + 1.1%)
          Stop%: Bayless 47.1%, Calderon 40.3% (Bayless, + 6.8%)
          Points allowed per 100 possessions faced: Bayless 114.8, Calderon 116.1 (Bayless, + 1.3)
          Net Points / Pace Adjusted 36 minutes: Bayless +3.8, Calderon -1.8 (Bayless, + 5.6)

          In other words, as a starter Jerryd Bayless has done absolutely everything better than Calderon and in some cases hugely better. The only thing Jose has done better is he assists on more of his teammates' field goals than Jerryd does (but surprisingly turns it over more than Jerryd). That has not translated into team success, as our offensive rating is 105.6 in the games in which Jose starts and 110.2 when Jerryd starts.

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          • #50
            j bean wrote: View Post
            What does a younger player have to do to "earn" the starters role over Jose Calderone?
            How about beating him in almost every category.
            This is from a post by Maleko.

            Okay, so side-by-side - Jerryd vs. Jose as starters - all stats, here we go:

            Points Produced / Pace Adjusted 36 minutes: Bayless 20.6, Calderon 14.8 (Bayless, + 5.8)
            % of Team's Possessions Borne Individually while on the floor: Bayless 24.5%, Calderon 19.1% (Bayless, + 5.4%)
            ORat: Bayless 121.9, Calderon 112.5 (Bayless, + 9.4)
            effective FG%: Bayless 53.7%, Calderon 50.5% (Bayless, 3.2%)
            True Shooting %: Bayless 59.1%, Calderon 53.4% (Bayless, 5.7%)
            Free throws / 100 Field Goal Attempts: Bayless 31.5, Calderon 13.1 (Bayless, + 18.4)
            Percentage of teammates' field goals assisted: Bayless 36.0%, Calderon 42.8% (Calderon, + 6.8%)
            Turnovers as percentage of Individual Possessions: Bayless 15.2%, Calderon 19.0% (Bayless, + 3.8%)
            Percentage of Total Available Rebounds Grabbed: Bayless 7.0%, Calderon, 5.9% (Bayless, + 1.1%)
            Stop%: Bayless 47.1%, Calderon 40.3% (Bayless, + 6.8%)
            Points allowed per 100 possessions faced: Bayless 114.8, Calderon 116.1 (Bayless, + 1.3)
            Net Points / Pace Adjusted 36 minutes: Bayless +3.8, Calderon -1.8 (Bayless, + 5.6)

            In other words, as a starter Jerryd Bayless has done absolutely everything better than Calderon and in some cases hugely better. The only thing Jose has done better is he assists on more of his teammates' field goals than Jerryd does (but surprisingly turns it over more than Jerryd). That has not translated into team success, as our offensive rating is 105.6 in the games in which Jose starts and 110.2 when Jerryd starts.
            Of course, we're talking 14 games versus 68 games. Hardly a fair comparison. It's a lot easier to put up numbers like that over 14 games than over 68. And what was the competition like over the 14 games? A lot of those games were at the end of the season when a lot of bench players start putting up good numbers.
            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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            • #51
              Tim W. wrote: View Post
              Of course, we're talking 14 games versus 68 games. Hardly a fair comparison. It's a lot easier to put up numbers like that over 14 games than over 68. And what was the competition like over the 14 games? A lot of those games were at the end of the season when a lot of bench players start putting up good numbers.
              Maybe over 82 games Bayless wouldn't be that much better than Calderon...but he would still be better and that makes the team better and gives us more wins...so given this stats from j bean and given the defense he plays (which is not seen in the stats) I would prefer Bayless as my starting pg.And most importantly he has shown constant improvement and he ain't so injury prone like Calderon.

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              • #52
                j bean wrote: View Post
                What does a younger player have to do to "earn" the starters role over Jose Calderone?
                How about beating him in almost every category.
                This is from a post by Maleko.

                Okay, so side-by-side - Jerryd vs. Jose as starters - all stats, here we go:

                Points Produced / Pace Adjusted 36 minutes: Bayless 20.6, Calderon 14.8 (Bayless, + 5.8)
                % of Team's Possessions Borne Individually while on the floor: Bayless 24.5%, Calderon 19.1% (Bayless, + 5.4%)
                ORat: Bayless 121.9, Calderon 112.5 (Bayless, + 9.4)
                effective FG%: Bayless 53.7%, Calderon 50.5% (Bayless, 3.2%)
                True Shooting %: Bayless 59.1%, Calderon 53.4% (Bayless, 5.7%)
                Free throws / 100 Field Goal Attempts: Bayless 31.5, Calderon 13.1 (Bayless, + 18.4)
                Percentage of teammates' field goals assisted: Bayless 36.0%, Calderon 42.8% (Calderon, + 6.8%)
                Turnovers as percentage of Individual Possessions: Bayless 15.2%, Calderon 19.0% (Bayless, + 3.8%)
                Percentage of Total Available Rebounds Grabbed: Bayless 7.0%, Calderon, 5.9% (Bayless, + 1.1%)
                Stop%: Bayless 47.1%, Calderon 40.3% (Bayless, + 6.8%)
                Points allowed per 100 possessions faced: Bayless 114.8, Calderon 116.1 (Bayless, + 1.3)
                Net Points / Pace Adjusted 36 minutes: Bayless +3.8, Calderon -1.8 (Bayless, + 5.6)

                In other words, as a starter Jerryd Bayless has done absolutely everything better than Calderon and in some cases hugely better. The only thing Jose has done better is he assists on more of his teammates' field goals than Jerryd does (but surprisingly turns it over more than Jerryd). That has not translated into team success, as our offensive rating is 105.6 in the games in which Jose starts and 110.2 when Jerryd starts.
                Great job.Thank you for showing black on white why and how better Bayless was.

                Comment


                • #53
                  footarez wrote: View Post
                  Great job.Thank you for showing black on white why and how better Bayless was.
                  Except that it is not black and white, the sample size is too small and the end of season games and rosters play a role. Lets not forget the the huge 2 wins Bayless led the team to down the stretch.

                  Will Bayless be given the starting PG spot, NO Will Bayless be given the opportunity to earn the starting PG spot in training camp, yes.
                  Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

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                  • #54
                    I think it he will be starting next season unless we sign someone like Felton.No rookie or Calderon should start ahead of him..if that happens no wonder our team sucks...with such decisions based not on performance but on...salary or just affection. I believe if given the opportunity to prove he should be starter he will.

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                    • #55
                      Jerryd Bayless is going to explode in training camp knowing that if he does well he'll earn the starting job.

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                      • #56
                        Raptors_ wrote: View Post
                        Jerryd Bayless is going to explode in training camp knowing that if he does well he'll earn the starting job.
                        I truly hope so, but I hope he does better than the explosion that Weems was going to have for this year.
                        Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          footarez wrote: View Post
                          Maybe over 82 games Bayless wouldn't be that much better than Calderon...but he would still be better and that makes the team better and gives us more wins...so given this stats from j bean and given the defense he plays (which is not seen in the stats) I would prefer Bayless as my starting pg.And most importantly he has shown constant improvement and he ain't so injury prone like Calderon.
                          I really don't think you can say he would be better at all. Look at what Calderon did when he took over for Ford, initially, earning his present contract. My one big beef with Bayless is that he's yet to show a consistent ability to run the team. Yes, he can put up some great stats, but so did Mike James. With the PG position, stats probably mean the least. Calderon knows how to run an offense. Bayless has yet to show that ability. That's number one in my book when judging a PG.
                          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                          Follow me on Twitter.

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                          • #58
                            Tim W. wrote: View Post
                            I really don't think you can say he would be better at all. Look at what Calderon did when he took over for Ford, initially, earning his present contract. My one big beef with Bayless is that he's yet to show a consistent ability to run the team. Yes, he can put up some great stats, but so did Mike James. With the PG position, stats probably mean the least. Calderon knows how to run an offense. Bayless has yet to show that ability. That's number one in my book when judging a PG.
                            Sounds like we better get #1 and draft Irving then trade Bargnani to SAC for their pick to get Kanter.... actually, that doesn't sound like a bad idea. Bring on Tuesday.

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                            • #59
                              WJF wrote: View Post
                              I truly hope so, but I hope he does better than the explosion that Weems was going to have for this year.
                              i never bought into that. Weems is a bench player, and he's been playing the wrong position this whole season because of our lack of SF's.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                Sounds like we better get #1 and draft Irving then trade Bargnani to SAC for their pick to get Kanter.... actually, that doesn't sound like a bad idea. Bring on Tuesday.
                                that would be a genius move. If BC gets resigned and pulls that off that would be huge for us.

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