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Rubio & Calderon \ Flynn & Kemba = Kawhi Leonard

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  • #16
    HuskyRaptor wrote: View Post
    this trade must happen!
    I am a huge Calderon fan, but to trade him for Flynn, Webster and Williams @ #2? How can you not? Calderon's not in the long-term plans, so it's a great trade even if Flynn doesn't become the PG of the future... at the very least it creates competition between him and Bayless for the starting PG job, which would theoretically raise his and Bayless' trade value!

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    • #17
      ceez wrote: View Post
      I'd say there's more flaws than that
      ya, i know i was making light of it though.
      If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

      Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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      • #18
        Quixotic wrote: View Post
        Yeah, LOL. If you (LBF) are going to criticize his spelling, then you might as well criticize all the other spelling mistakes, lack of punctuation, inconsistent capitalization, etc.
        nah, it's a forum not an english essay. just thought he should at least get the guys name right.
        If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

        Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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        • #19
          CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
          It could be even more simple:

          TO MINNY
          - Calderon
          - #5 pick

          TO TORONTO
          - Flynn
          - Webster
          - #2 pick

          I'm worried that Minny might want more in return for Flynn/Webster/#2 though.
          man I'd want more than that for taking Flynn from them and getting the opportunity to draft a tweener in a terrible draft class. (I'd take Ridnour in a second over Flynn).

          Its not tough to say no to:
          40% fg and 4 assts on 2.6 turnovers. Also ranked the 6th most negatively influential player in basketball.

          No Flynn, No Tweeners, No more soft Cs, No more undersized SGs playing PG... how about the Raps start building a REAL NBA team. You know, with good players, that are the right size and actually have a positive effect on the franchise

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          • #20
            GarbageTime wrote: View Post
            man I'd want more than that for taking Flynn from them and getting the opportunity to draft a tweener in a terrible draft class. (I'd take Ridnour in a second over Flynn).

            Its not tough to say no to:
            40% fg and 4 assts on 2.6 turnovers. Also ranked the 6th most negatively influential player in basketball.

            No Flynn, No Tweeners, No more soft Cs, No more undersized SGs playing PG... how about the Raps start building a REAL NBA team. You know, with good players, that are the right size and actually have a positive effect on the franchise
            I don't think anybody claimed that this one trade would solve all the Raptors' problems. And they may very well take Kanter at #2, who knows. #2 gives them more options than #5 does, regardless who they end up drafting. I don't know how you would argue that the team is better with Calderon and #5 than they would be with Flynn & Webster & #2. A trade like this gives BC more flexibility to make additional trades, as it is all about small steps in the right direction, acquiring better younger assets that can eventually become a good team. You don't get from last season to contender overnight.

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            • #21
              CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
              It could be even more simple:

              TO MINNY
              - Calderon
              - #5 pick

              TO TORONTO
              - Flynn
              - Webster
              - #2 pick

              I'm worried that Minny might want more in return for Flynn/Webster/#2 though.
              They most definitely would want more.

              The Detroit/Cleveland/Minnesota trade will most definitely go down. Everyone in that trade wins once Detroit gets more than finanical relief (i.e. one of or any combination of #20, #32, player).

              Toronto is better off just making Webster/Flynn for Calderon and try to get a swap with Utah (#3 and $3M for #5 - i.e. Kanter for Knight and $3M).

              Do not forget the Minnesota trade also gives Toronto an extra $1M in cap space this year and possibly $6.2M in 2012-2013 if Webster's option is not picked up ($500K if it was).

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              • #22
                CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                as it is all about small steps in the right direction, acquiring better younger assets that can eventually become a good team. You don't get from last season to contender overnight.
                key word BETTER younger assets. Not just younger assets. Flynn is not better. He has not shown he can compete at this level. He is just younger.

                No you don't become a contender overnight, but you do need experience to get there.

                I'm not against trading Jose... but if he is moved I want to see it for something that is a step in the right direction.... not a stab in the dark.

                Rather see #2 Ridnour/Webster for Jose #5 any day of the week.

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                • #23
                  GarbageTime wrote: View Post
                  key word BETTER younger assets. Not just younger assets. Flynn is not better. He has not shown he can compete at this level. He is just younger.

                  No you don't become a contender overnight, but you do need experience to get there.

                  I'm not against trading Jose... but if he is moved I want to see it for something that is a step in the right direction.... not a stab in the dark.

                  Rather see #2 Ridnour/Webster for Jose #5 any day of the week.
                  I guess I don't see Ridnour as anymore of a long-term solution than Flynn/Bayless, but he's paid a lot more money over more years than either of them. I also think Flynn has a lot more potential to improve than Bayless or Ridnour. I think he's just been stuck with a crappy team running a system that was alien to him (quasi-triangle offense), where he was asked to play a style that he wasn't comfortable with and didn't allow his skillset to shine through. I would love to give him a chance and would rather give him a chance running the Raps than Bayless. I think you save money, you get younger and if not better than still no worse and you have 2 chances of finding a good qulaity PG in Flynn/Bayless... if one/both of them don't work out, they have better trade value than Jose would after another season. I don't think either of them are that elusive "pass-first PG of the future", but they have a better chance of developing into that or being used to acquire that down the road, than Calderon would.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                    I posted this as a new topic in the Trade Proposals section of the RR Forum:

                    So in light of Rubio deciding to come play for Minnesota, I thought I'd revisit the Calderon-to-Minnesota rumor and address a few teams' needs.

                    TO MINNESOTA
                    - Calderon (to mentor Rubio and give Minny veteran leadership on the floor)
                    - Barbosa (they have no SG and he would also be another veteran that Kahn wants)
                    - #5 pick (from Toronto)

                    TO INDIANA
                    - Ridnour (PG/salary dump for Minny, would be veteran PG for Indy to pair with Collison)
                    - Ellington (end of bench player from Minny, purely for salary-matching reasons)

                    TO TORONTO
                    - Flynn (PG dump for Minny, would give Bayless good young competition for PG time in TO)
                    - Webster (salary-matching from Minny, more decent young wing depth for Toronto)
                    - Posey (salary dump from Indy, either bought-out or traded by Toronto)
                    - cash from Indy to help facilitate buy-out of Posey
                    - #2 pick (from Minny)
                    - #45 pick (from Indy)


                    * Toronto would have a few more options regarding which players to keep, trade or buy-out (Posey) --> I assume Toronto would draft Williams @ #2, or possibly Kanter

                    * Minny would go from Flynn/Ridnour to Calderon/Rubio at PG, would also add a veteran SG on an expiring contract in Barbosa (Webster is behind Beasley/Wesley at SF) and would still have the #5 pick to either use or trade

                    * Indy would add veteran PG depth (Ridnour) for the big expiring contract of Posey, a 2nd-round pick and cash; they would save $2M next season


                    NOTE:
                    I couldn't do the trade as-is, due to Barbosa not having exercised his option, but I did it with Kleiza/DeRozan acting as a place-holder for his contract, since they are roughly equal money. That trade did work on ESPN's Trade Machine
                    I'd do this in a heartbeat. Even if I really like Calderon, this trade would make the team's future brighter, that's for sure. Then I'd draft Kanter with the second pick.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Make this happen

                      charlz wrote: View Post
                      Jose < - > flynn Webster (salary dump)
                      http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5wbosnb

                      or maybe an s+t for weems there are a few ways BC could spin it...
                      Yea, this makes sense. Webster could also provide the much needed 3 point shooting the team desperately needs!
                      “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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                      • #26
                        CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                        I guess I don't see Ridnour as anymore of a long-term solution than Flynn/Bayless, but he's paid a lot more money over more years than either of them. I also think Flynn has a lot more potential to improve than Bayless or Ridnour. I think he's just been stuck with a crappy team running a system that was alien to him (quasi-triangle offense), where he was asked to play a style that he wasn't comfortable with and didn't allow his skillset to shine through. I would love to give him a chance and would rather give him a chance running the Raps than Bayless. I think you save money, you get younger and if not better than still no worse and you have 2 chances of finding a good qulaity PG in Flynn/Bayless... if one/both of them don't work out, they have better trade value than Jose would after another season. I don't think either of them are that elusive "pass-first PG of the future", but they have a better chance of developing into that or being used to acquire that down the road, than Calderon would.
                        I don't see Flynn, Bayless, Ridnour or Calderon as a long term solution. But who ever that solution turns out to be... I would rather have Calderon as a mentor and team leader, plus as a reliable back up in case of injury (or stupidity or sucking). Ridnour, much like Calderon, is exactly what he is... a solid reliable PG. Each has positives and negatives, but they can run an offense and are reliable game in and game out. No nonesense, get the job done, team players.

                        I've said it before and I'll say it again... a triangle offense doesn't make a good pg bad, or a bad pg good. If anything it should have lowered his turnover rate... and at 2+ a game over 18 min last year... thats terrible.

                        What makes you think either Flynn or Bayless would have more trade value after a season if they don't work? If neither work out... well doesn't Jose and his expiring contract offer alot more value to a team? Why do you expect another team to take a guy who would have failed for 2+ teams over a guy thats a proven commodity with an expiring contract?

                        I know fans love young guys. They love the idea of "potential". But potential or youth mean nothing unless you can do something with it. If the criteria is youth and potential, why not just keep the #5 pick and grab Knight or Walker (neither of which I'm thrilled about) and keep Jose. They are both younger and show more potential... if thats whats important.

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                        • #27
                          LBF wrote: View Post
                          nah, it's a forum not an english essay. just thought he should at least get the guys name right.
                          I guess you only care about Kaman and not the two other guys whose names he got wrong?=P

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                          • #28
                            GarbageTime wrote: View Post
                            key word BETTER younger assets. Not just younger assets. Flynn is not better. He has not shown he can compete at this level. He is just younger.

                            No you don't become a contender overnight, but you do need experience to get there.

                            I'm not against trading Jose... but if he is moved I want to see it for something that is a step in the right direction.... not a stab in the dark.

                            Rather see #2 Ridnour/Webster for Jose #5 any day of the week.
                            How is Ridnour/Webster more of a step in the right direction? Webster has been below average his entire career, and he's been in the league a lot longer than Flynn. If Flynn has shown he isn't a quality player in the league after only two years, what does that say about Webster? And Ridnour isn't exactly a decent defender either. At least with Flynn, if he doesn't work out, we can decline his option.

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                            • #29
                              Quixotic wrote: View Post
                              How is Ridnour/Webster more of a step in the right direction? Webster has been below average his entire career, and he's been in the league a lot longer than Flynn. If Flynn has shown he isn't a quality player in the league after only two years, what does that say about Webster? And Ridnour isn't exactly a decent defender either. At least with Flynn, if he doesn't work out, we can decline his option.
                              you might have to eat the webster contract to get Jose's off the books
                              "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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                              • #30
                                charlz wrote: View Post
                                you might have to eat the webster contract to get Jose's off the books
                                Yes, that was a given since it was Flynn/Webster vs Ridnour/Webster.

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