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Ripples From Mavs Win Changing Views?

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  • #16
    boston had a big three but they had a team around them two and there big three played like a team, wade and lebron still don't know how to work together and the heat are effectively a four man team wade lebron bosh and chalmers has been playing well the rest of the heat are non existent. you cant just grab 3 amazing players and tell them to play, much threw the finals you could tlel the heat had no offensive plan all they did was pass the ball to lebron or wade, i think coach erik spolstra and the heats lack of a true team let them down. boston had amazing role players to go along with the big 3 heat don't have any good role players
    ya dun noe

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    • #17
      Can't agree more. Dirk has been there 12 years and Terry how many? I was worried that if the Heat won easily, it would create a two-tiered league where all young stars colluded to play together. At least if Miami wins it next year, they at least had some adversity to overcome (not a whole lot) but at least the title wasn't just handed to them.

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      • #18
        jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
        A nine-time all-defensive player who has lost a step or two is still a good defensive player. It's not speed that makes a good defender, but awareness, toughness and effort.
        I agree all those things are extremely important in defense and having those traits certainly overcome lack of athletic ability.

        However, Kidd has felt the effects of father time and it has affected his defensive game compared to 3-4 seasons ago.

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        • #19
          dwayne casey should get the raptors coaching job
          ya dun noe

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          • #20
            ejah wrote: View Post
            I'm not saying Bargs = Dirk for a second, but perhaps a Mavs title could improve the value of bargs on the open market. Their skill sets are undeniably similar and perhaps other gm's would be more interested in accepting Bargnani's defensive liabilities in a deal after seeing what dirk did to pretty much everyone in these playoffs
            While Bargnani is definitely not Dirk, and I don't think they are comparable, I am at least heartened to see that this observation is followed up by a potential increase in his trade market worth instead of "maybe we should keep him so Bargs can do what Dirk did"...blah blah blah as we have seen a number of times on here and elsewhere during these finals.

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            • #21
              Matt52 wrote: View Post
              I agree all those things are extremely important in defense and having those traits certainly overcome lack of athletic ability.

              However, Kidd has felt the effects of father time and it has affected his defensive game compared to 3-4 seasons ago.
              This is exactly my point - Kidd might have great instincts and BBall IQ - but his lateral quickness is completely shot at this point in his career. There was a clear defensive strategic switch part way through the series to put Marion (the better defender) on Wade instead of Lebron, as Kidd simply could not handle Wade and the Mavs were suffering big time as a result.
              The point remains - at this stage of their careers, a number of the Mavs key players are not good INDIVIDUAL defensive players .. yet the team has a very good defensive scheme / result due to coaching and the key contibutions of a couple of defenders.

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              • #22
                I do think that the result has the potential to change the minds of some stars. To me, having multiple superstars on one team goes against their nature and forces them all to play out of character. Each of the "big 3" have been the alpha dog from high school to NCAA and into the NBA, where they knew they were "the man" who would be expected to dominate the ball and carry their teams. Suddenly they have to try and share the ball around and not dominate the play, which goes completely against the on-court instincts they've relied on their entire lives.

                Other superstar players are bound to look at the results and re-think the idea of creating their own "big 2" or "big 3", and concentrate more on how to build the best team with themselves as "the man".
                Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Jun 13, 2011, 11:00 AM.

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                • #23
                  mountio wrote: View Post
                  This is exactly my point - Kidd might have great instincts and BBall IQ - but his lateral quickness is completely shot at this point in his career. There was a clear defensive strategic switch part way through the series to put Marion (the better defender) on Wade instead of Lebron, as Kidd simply could not handle Wade and the Mavs were suffering big time as a result.
                  The point remains - at this stage of their careers, a number of the Mavs key players are not good INDIVIDUAL defensive players .. yet the team has a very good defensive scheme / result due to coaching and the key contibutions of a couple of defenders.
                  Having good TEAM defenders is important. No one can stop any of the really good players one on one, so you need to be able to rely on your teammates. Kidd is a good team defender. Dirk is actually a decent team defender (and better overall than most people give him credit for). And there's a reason Peja played less and less as the playoffs went on. And it's what I've been saying all along. As you get deeper in the playoffs, poor defenders are exposed more and more.
                  Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                  • #24
                    I saw that a 'soft,' shooting big-man can win an NBA final!!! Bargnani surely has a long way to go, but there is a chance. Pluck Chandler and Casey from Dallas and I think we would be improving his odds.

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                    • #25
                      mountio wrote: View Post
                      This is exactly my point - Kidd might have great instincts and BBall IQ - but his lateral quickness is completely shot at this point in his career. There was a clear defensive strategic switch part way through the series to put Marion (the better defender) on Wade instead of Lebron, as Kidd simply could not handle Wade and the Mavs were suffering big time as a result.
                      The point remains - at this stage of their careers, a number of the Mavs key players are not good INDIVIDUAL defensive players .. yet the team has a very good defensive scheme / result due to coaching and the key contibutions of a couple of defenders.
                      Wade had success in the open court on Kidd but who in the league can stay in front of him in that situation. Kidd's defense on Wade (Kobe in the LA series) allows Terry the job of defending guys like Chalmers, Bibby (Fisher in LA series) so he's not exhausting himself on both ends. He's not the quickest guy but rarely gets exposed. Great hands, always in the right spot, excellent help and defends the post well up against SG makes him a stud in my books.

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                      • #26
                        CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                        I do think that the result has the potential to change the minds of some stars. To me, having multiple superstars on one team goes against their nature and forces them all to play out of character. Each of the "big 3" have been the alpha dog from high school to NCAA and into the NBA, where they knew they were "the man" who would be expected to dominate the ball and carry their teams. Suddenly they have to try and share the ball around and not dominate the play, which goes completely against the on-court instincts they've relied on their entire lives.

                        Other superstar players are bound to look at the results and re-think the idea of creating their own "big 2" or "big 3", and concentrate more on how to build the best team with themselves as "the man".
                        I think it is more important to look at where the big whatevers play by position. I think it won't work in any situation where the two stars are wings. If at least one of the big is a C, or maybe a PG then that changes things. In light of that, if Howard were to join Wade (or vice-versa) I think it would be powerful. I really think that the Heat would do better trading Lebron than they would trading Bosh. For one they could command a lot more in return, and if they get a guy like Howard for Lebron they would truly be a force, but keeping Wade and Lebron together I think is the one way they will only challenge mediocrity in playoffs for years to come.

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                        • #27
                          jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
                          Only thing I saw in the Finals that applies to the Raps is that Barea absolutely killed the Heat, and it made me think someone like Kemba Walker's got a real shot to do something special in the league. And Walker isn't really even that small

                          Maybe the way they ran the zone showed that it can be a primary defensive option if you have the coach to teach it properly and the players to carry it out the same.
                          It really is the extreme quickness and while I agree with the use of Barea, he is a backup talent who would get exposed in a starting role. KW is also my choice if Kanter is unavailable (a good big man is more difficult to acquire...read Chandler).

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                          • #28
                            CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                            I do think that the result has the potential to change the minds of some stars. To me, having multiple superstars on one team goes against their nature and forces them all to play out of character. Each of the "big 3" have been the alpha dog from high school to NCAA and into the NBA, where they knew they were "the man" who would be expected to dominate the ball and carry their teams. Suddenly they have to try and share the ball around and not dominate the play, which goes completely against the on-court instincts they've relied on their entire lives.

                            Other superstar players are bound to look at the results and re-think the idea of creating their own "big 2" or "big 3", and concentrate more on how to build the best team with themselves as "the man".


                            Actually, I think that what the heat have done more than anything else would solidify the idea of star players teaming up. They did make the finals after all and had the chance to compete for a ring. That opportunity has been dominated by the Lakers and Boston for the last 3 years because they have "Super Teams" themselves.

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                            • #29
                              Apollo wrote: View Post
                              This doesn't make anyone think that Casey's odds of being the Raptors' next head coach have gone up?
                              It also increases the odds that he might get better offers!

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                              • #30
                                Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                                [/B]

                                Actually, I think that what the heat have done more than anything else would solidify the idea of star players teaming up. They did make the finals after all and had the chance to compete for a ring. That opportunity has been dominated by the Lakers and Boston for the last 3 years because they have "Super Teams" themselves.
                                Exactly. It took totally uncharacteristic performances from their best player (Lebron) in order for another team to even be competitive with them. Thats with less than 12 months to gel an all time bad supporting cast. Everyone is totally overreacting here .. lets not forget they dismantled Bos and Chi just a few weeks ago. They will be the overwhelming favourite to win the title next year (and the year after, and so on). Dissapointing for them - sure .. but no need to panic here ..

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