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#5 for #12 and Al Jefferson/Paul Milsap. Potential Utah-Toronto Draft Day trade.

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  • #31
    Another thing people aren't talking about is the fact that Al Jefferson is a back to the basket low post player. There are few back to the bucket +20PPG players in the league today. What he brings on offense would be a huge assets when the Raptors are running half court plays. He would make life a lot easier for a young, inexperienced starting PG...

    ceez wrote: View Post
    guys the days of hulking centers and playing half court are over. get over it. you need guys that can run the break and give help D. the starting centers in the finals were old man chandler (who played great, im not disputing it, but cmon) and joel fucking anthony.

    last i checked noah was benched a lot of the time for not being able to keep up with the heats frontcourt.
    Really though. One of the toughest post match ups Ed would face would be in practice against Al. Most centers in the league today either can't score or they're face up players. No matter who the Raptors put on Dwight, he's going to need help defense down low. Even then, once Dwight gets the rock around the bucket there are few players in the league who are going to get the stop.

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    • #32
      ceez wrote: View Post
      guys the days of hulking centers and playing half court are over. get over it. you need guys that can run the break and give help D. the starting centers in the finals were old man chandler (who played great, im not disputing it, but cmon) and joel fucking anthony.
      Man that's crazy talk right there.

      Last whack of NBA champions:

      Mavericks (Chandler)
      Lakers (Bynum)
      Lakers (Bynum)
      Celtics (Perkins)
      Spurs (Duncan)
      Heat (Shaq)
      Spurs (Duncan)
      Pistons (Ben Wallace)
      Spurs (Duncan)
      Lakers (Shaq)
      Lakers (Shaq)
      Lakers (Shaq)
      Spurs (Robinson)

      Care to rethink that statement? Tell me how any of those teams won without a "hulking center". Detroit with Wallace is the only exception, but given Wallace is a multiple NBA Defensive Player of the Year, the exception is marginal.

      And how many of those teams were non half-court, fast-break break teams?? Right. Zero.

      And Tyson Chandler is not old. He's 28 for crying out loud. Younger than Dwyane Wade.

      No offense but that post was nonsense.

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      • #33
        like i said, days of hulking centers are over. last i checked shaq is retired and duncan plays 20 minutes a game and got swept by memphis.
        @sweatpantsjer

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        • #34
          jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
          Man that's crazy talk right there.

          Last whack of NBA champions:

          Mavericks (Chandler)
          Lakers (Bynum)
          Lakers (Bynum)
          Celtics (Perkins)
          Spurs (Duncan)
          Heat (Shaq)
          Spurs (Duncan)
          Pistons (Ben Wallace)
          Spurs (Duncan)
          Lakers (Shaq)
          Lakers (Shaq)
          Lakers (Shaq)
          Spurs (Robinson)

          Care to rethink that statement? Tell me how any of those teams won without a "hulking center". Detroit with Wallace is the only exception, but given Wallace is a multiple NBA Defensive Player of the Year, the exception is marginal.

          And how many of those teams were non half-court, fast-break break teams?? Right. Zero.

          And Tyson Chandler is not old. He's 28 for crying out loud. Younger than Dwyane Wade.

          No offense but that post was nonsense.
          You add 20lbs of muscle onto Ed and he's at around Chandler's size and we're not talking about a team that's going to the finals anytime soon regardless. Ed and Al could be switching assignments depending on the size of the opposing bigs. Al is a freight train.

          ceez wrote: View Post
          like i said, days of hulking centers are over. last i checked shaq is retired and duncan plays 20 minutes a game and got swept by memphis.
          And Perk isn't even an average scorer. The Raptors don't need to worry about Perk or Bynum until the finals. At that point, halleluiah, what a problem to have.

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          • #35
            i rather we trade bargs for either a wing or point guard (draft either a wing or point guard - depending on which position is addressed through the bargani trade) then try to sign a center like chandler in free agency

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            • #36
              Chandler just won a Championship with the Mavs. Why would he leave that to go play for the Raptors? I can only think of one scenario. Blackmail...

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              • #37
                ceez wrote: View Post
                like i said, days of hulking centers are over. last i checked shaq is retired and duncan plays 20 minutes a game and got swept by memphis.
                The Spurs got beat out by Memphis...and what kind of center does Memphis have again?

                And the Spurs did not get swept. The series went to six games...what series were you watching?

                Show me 5 teams that are a threat to win next season - or beyond - without a hulking presence guarding the basket? I can think of only two - Chicago and Miami. One of those teams happens to start 3 all-stars and 2 first-ballot hall of famers (That is, they're a total statistical aberration). The other is lead by the league's MVP and had their non hulking C benched for significant stretches in the playoffs in favour of their hulking one.

                Apollo wrote: View Post
                You add 20lbs of muscle onto Ed and he's at around Chandler's size and we're not talking about a team that's going to the finals anytime soon regardless.
                What?? Tyson Chandler is 7'1". Ed Davis is generously listed at 6'10".

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                • #38
                  I said size, not height. Big difference.

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                  • #39
                    who do the raptors give up?

                    Too much uncertainty in this deal, Ive heard that Kleiza is one of the names that the raptors may be sending to utah plus the tpe and a filler, we might be giving away one of our PFs just dont know.

                    I do know that Al Jefferson is a good player though, he can get you 20 and 10 from the C position which is hard to do, and he averaged almost 2 blocks a game for utah last year not bad at all.

                    Ive repeatedly said that I would like to see the raptors bring in some more veteran players rather than youth into this mix, but I cant endorse this deal until I Know more about it. The way the deal is though "jefferson and the 12th, for torontos 5th" I would do that lol.
                    "Defense wins championships."

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                    • #40
                      SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
                      Too much uncertainty in this deal, Ive heard that Kleiza is one of the names that the raptors may be sending to utah plus the tpe and a filler, we might be giving away one of our PFs just dont know.
                      If they can offload Kleiza in the deal then that's even better.

                      SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
                      Ive repeatedly said that I would like to see the raptors bring in some more veteran players rather than youth into this mix, but I cant endorse this deal until I Know more about it. The way the deal is though "jefferson and the 12th, for torontos 5th" I would do that lol.
                      This coming season with be Al's eighth year in the league. He's a vet.

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                      • #41
                        Apollo wrote: View Post
                        I said size, not height. Big difference.
                        Not to nitpick, but height is inextricably linked to size. It's a law of the mathematical universe.

                        You mean weight. If Davis puts on 20lbs he will about the same weight as Chandler.

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                        • #42
                          No, that's to nitpick. Whatever you want to call it. They'd be the same mass.

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                          • #43
                            Ed Davis versus starting C's around the league and their pre-draft measurements:


                            name/height wo shoes/height w shoes/weight/wingspan/standing reach/body fat/no step vertical/max vertical

                            Ed Davis/ 6' 9"/ 6' 9.75"/ 227/ 7' 0"/ 9' 0"/ 10.0/ 31.0/ 36.0

                            Al Horford/ 6' 8.75"/ 6' 9.75"/ 246/ 7' 0.75"/ 8' 11"/ 9.1/ 31.0/ 35.5

                            Emeka Okafor/ 6' 8.75"/ 6' 10"/ 257/ 7' 4"/ 9' 2.5"/ NA/ 31.5/ 34.0

                            DeAndre Jordan/ 6' 9.75"/ 6' 11"/ 250/ 7' 6"/ 9' 5.5"/ 7.5/ 26.0/ 30.5

                            Joakim Noah/ 6' 10.5"/ 7' 0"/ 223/ 7' 1.25"/ 8' 10.5"/ 4.8/ 32.5/ 37.5

                            Dwight Howard/ 6' 9"/ 6' 10.25"/ 240/ 7' 4.5"/ 9' 3.5"/ NA/ 30.5/ 35.5

                            Nene/ 6' 9.25"/ 6' 10.25"/ 253/ 7' 4.5"/ 9' 1"/ NA/ 30.0/ 34.0

                            Elton Brand/ 6' 8.25"/ 6' 9.5"/ 260/ 7' 5.5"/ 9' 2"/ NA/ NA/ NA

                            Al Jefferson/ 6' 8.5"/ 6' 9.75"/ 263/ 7' 2.5"/ 9' 2"/ NA/ 28.5/ 30.0

                            Chuck Hayes/ 6' 5.5"/ 6' 6.75"/ 232/ 6' 10"/ 8' 8.5"/ NA/ 30.0/ 33.0

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                            • #44
                              Apollo wrote: View Post
                              No, that's to nitpick. Whatever you want to call it. They'd be the same mass.
                              It's an important distinction to make. One could otherwise make the just - albeit deliberately obfuscating - statement that someone standing 5 foot tall but weighing 300lb is about the same size as Shaq. Or, to nitpick, that Ed Davis weighing in at 235 would be about the same size as Tyson Chandler. Perhaps in a non b-ball conversation that would be true. But 3 inches worth of height is a significant advantage when fighting for boards and playing good D in the post and is definitely worth pointing out.

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                              • #45
                                From a pure value perspective, it's hard not to like the deal. Jefferson is a very good player, is in his prime, and his contract only has 2 years left. Then you get the #12 pick. That's a good haul from the #5 pick in a crappy draft. Not sure any guy you pick at #5 gives you anything close to what AlJeff can give you.

                                From a basketball perspective, having Jefferson, Bargs, Amir and ED as your 4 bigs is far better than the current scenario. If Bargs is traded, then you still have 3 decent bigs. Jefferson may not be the ultimate defensive anchor inside but I'm not sure that mythical creature is available to the Raps right now.

                                The downside is the ~$15mm salary. Not sure he's worth that much and he certainly ties up a large percentage of your cap. I'm not sure he's enough of a difference-maker to justify that salary.

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