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#5 for #12 and Al Jefferson/Paul Milsap. Potential Utah-Toronto Draft Day trade.

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  • #16
    ceez wrote: View Post
    yeah id pass on this
    This.

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    • #17
      Apollo wrote: View Post
      Al Jeff is probably better than anything you're going to find at #5 and then on top of that they retain a lotto pick. Strictly from a maximizing value standpoint it's good for the Raptors. In fact it's very good. Bargnani can be moved for a wing or a PG. Ed Davis is adding a lot of mass and he may be ready for center this season. The trade makes sense to me.
      I'm all for this trade but only because it couldn't make Toronto any worse than they already are, and a future of Jefferson, Davis and Amir for 3 bigs is not bad. My only concern with Jefferson is that he's always put up decent numbers on sub par teams. Sometimes the stench of losing will follow and relocation.
      Walking like I'm already there.

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      • #18
        I've always liked Al Jefferson so I wouldn't mind this trade. That being said, he isn't a natural center but can rotate over and play it if he has to. I like his scoring and he still has better D & rebounding than Bargnani. I would take this trade only if Bargs was getting traded for a PG for us, as truthfully I wouldn't want Bayless starting. It solves the scoring issue that might arise(I don't think it would be that bad even without Jeff) for the bigs other than Bargs and gives us the freedom to trade him away. That Bargs trade that I think Matt posted with SAC looks very tempting if we pull this deal too

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        • #19
          If there is any truth to the story, there would have to be other teams or players involved if Al Jefferson is coming.

          It would work with Paul Millsap as the TPE could be used to absorb his contract but the Raps would have nothing left come free agency with a huge hole at SF - unless they are going to do what Utah has tried which is to play Millsap as a SF.

          By itself, I am not liking this deal - at all.

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          • #20
            10 000 Hours wrote: View Post
            I'm all for this trade but only because it couldn't make Toronto any worse than they already are, and a future of Jefferson, Davis and Amir for 3 bigs is not bad. My only concern with Jefferson is that he's always put up decent numbers on sub par teams. Sometimes the stench of losing will follow and relocation.
            He's a career 50% shooter. Playing on a bad team doesn't make you more efficient at scoring the basketball.

            He's known for rebounding as well. Playing on a team with Kevin Love wouldn't exactly allow you to pad that stat.

            He has a career PER of 20.2. Again, I'm not sure how this particular stat can be padded playing on a bad team.

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            • #21
              No...this trade is a bad idea.

              First off, there's no guarantee that Biyombo will be available at 12. The trade as such is contingent upon the Raptors drafting a player they intend to trade - but only if another player they want is available 7 picks later? Stupid draft strategy. What if Biyombo goes to Detroit? Does that mean the Raps are stuck with Knight? If so, Knight would be the wrong player to take at 5.

              Also, the crazy PF logjam is actually made worse with this trade, which doesn't address any of the Raptors real needs. Unless they try Millsap at the 3, but that's not a good idea. He's too slow there. And even if he did play the 4, I like Davis better. Millsap's defensivee numbers are equal to those on offense, which makes his contribution basically nil.

              Or they get Jefferson, but for all the frustration fans have with Bargnani, why would we want another player who doesn't play defense? And the salaries don't match here at all. So unless there's another team or other players involved, it can't be Jefferson. So it's Millsap.

              Just a bad trade.

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              • #22
                No Way...Al Jefferson...no way!!!

                Wow. I can't believe some really think this is a good trade. Al is well known as a malcontent. Why introduce something llike this to the locker room? I'd much rather we find a bruiser to play alongsided Bargnani. a REAL center!

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                • #23
                  i kinda like this trade but i wouldnt want milsap. al jefferson is still relativly young at age 26. so we are still continuing the youth movement. jefferson is also better then anyone in the draft at this point.plus if we get the 12th pick we can grab a player of better quality for that selection. i think somone will dopossibly drop to 12. possibly drop like leonard, biyombo, thompson, vesley or fredette . you never know either, jefferson could have a great year and turn into a great trade piece next year or near the end of his contract.
                  Last edited by pesterm1; Mon Jun 20, 2011, 08:40 AM.

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                  • #24
                    There will not be a log jam...

                    I'm not sure why some people can't come to terms with the idea of Ed Davis playing center. If he adds the 20lbs of muscle he and his father are promising then he comes to camp around the same size as Joakim Noah. Amir Johnson is an excellent 6th man. Reggie is a free agent. Bargnani's days are probably numbered. Where's the log jam? Good teams have depth.

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                    • #25
                      Apollo wrote: View Post
                      I'm not sure why some people can't come to terms with the idea of Ed Davis playing center. If he adds the 20lbs of muscle he and his father are promising then he comes to camp around the same size as Joakim Noah. Amir Johnson is an excellent 6th man. Reggie is a free agent. Bargnani's days are probably numbered. Where's the log jam? Good teams have depth.
                      Co-sign.
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                      • #26
                        Apollo wrote: View Post
                        I'm not sure why some people can't come to terms with the idea of Ed Davis playing center. If he adds the 20lbs of muscle he and his father are promising then he comes to camp around the same size as Joakim Noah. Amir Johnson is an excellent 6th man. Reggie is a free agent. Bargnani's days are probably numbered. Where's the log jam? Good teams have depth.
                        Agree 100%. He will get beat up a bit his next year or two, but then it will be his turn to beat up the new rooks. There aren't that many bruising SCORING c's in the league. Give the dude a shot. Really, how is his frame that different than Noah's?

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                        • #27
                          I just checked out Jefferson's numbers per 48 and compared those with the numbers of his opponents.

                          At C, Jefferson's PER per48 is 24.4 (outstanding), whereas his Opp. PER is only 16.6 (much better than I thought).

                          To compare Jefferson's Opp. PER, here are the numbers of some other Centers around the league:

                          Nene: 18.2
                          T.Chandler: 17.4
                          Aldridge: 16.1
                          Bargnani: 21.1

                          According to the PER Jefferson plays defensively as well or better than Nene, Lamarcus Aldridge and Tyson Chandler. He's not an elite defender, but he's certainly capable and is actually better than most.

                          He's also a significant upgrade, defensively speaking, over Andrea Bargnani. Given that he outrebounds Bargnani, scores more efficiently and blocks way more shots, I'd say he's a massive upgrade at the 5. Paired with Davis at the 4 it might actually be a pretty excellent frontcourt down the line.

                          Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, financially the trade with Jefferson as the incoming player is impossible unless there's more to it. So, again, at this point it can't be Jefferson, but has to be Milsap.

                          And then, to counter Apollo's recent post,

                          I'm not sure why some people can't come to terms with the idea of Ed Davis playing center. If he adds the 20lbs of muscle he and his father are promising then he comes to camp around the same size as Joakim Noah.
                          If Davis gains 20lbs he'd still be significantly undersized at the 5. Noah can play undersized because he's got crazy energy and hustle - but he's also 6'11" (Davis is 6'10"). Davis is more a fundamentals guy. Fundamentals can't help make up for being outmatched to nearly the same capacity that energy and hustle can.

                          And Davis still has a lot of development to go. No knock on him, but his defensive numbers from last season were poor - despite how good he looked on the court - and learning how to play in the interior is the NBA's steepest learning curve. Paired with Millsap, it's a very weak defensive frontcourt for the time being. Not exactly the defensive shot in the arm I'd been hoping for.

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                          • #28
                            Apollo wrote: View Post
                            Al Jeff is probably better than anything you're going to find at #5 and then on top of that they retain a lotto pick. Strictly from a maximizing value standpoint it's good for the Raptors. In fact it's very good. Bargnani can be moved for a wing or a PG. Ed Davis is adding a lot of mass and he may be ready for center this season. The trade makes sense to me.
                            Ed Davis at Center for the Rap is just about the same as Horford playing center for the Hawks and we clearly see that experiment has failed too small to guard big guys. I have 0 confidence that Ed can hold his ground against Dwight Howard, Roy Hibbert... etc.
                            Last edited by KingRaptors; Mon Jun 20, 2011, 10:11 AM.

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                            • #29
                              guys the days of hulking centers and playing half court are over. get over it. you need guys that can run the break and give help D. the starting centers in the finals were old man chandler (who played great, im not disputing it, but cmon) and joel fucking anthony.

                              last i checked noah was benched a lot of the time for not being able to keep up with the heats frontcourt.
                              @sweatpantsjer

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                              • #30
                                ed won't match up well against the likes of dwight howard or bynum but really who does?
                                @sweatpantsjer

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