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Has Bautista's All-Star Success Proved Bosh's US Exposure Claims to be false?

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  • #16
    Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I wonder if it has more to do with the position he played than anything else. Aren't guards and wings that dunk and hit the big shot considered sexy (ie VC)? Sure if Blake Griffin played for the Raptors he'd be on all the hilight reels on ESPN, but would Tim Duncan have made those hilight reels with his more traditional game?
    Tim Duncan made his name with rings not pizzaz, Hakeem, Dwight, Shaq are all marketable names as bigs. A main reason for that is not their market, but the fact they play deep in the playoffs when everyone is watching

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    • #17
      Playing in Miami this past season did increase the profile of Bosh in the USA. It also did nothing to increase his off court marketability. Instead of being the best player in Canada he was exposed as a lesser talent than many had thought. There was a time last season when he wasn't even on track to make it to the all-star game.

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      • #18
        ceez wrote: View Post
        We're not talking about highlight reels we're talking about production and helping the team win. Blake does it, and yes the dunking over anyone and everyone helps. Duncan was universally praised by just about everyone for what he did. He may not have been on sportscenter ever but ive never heard anyone say a bad thing about him.

        He was also first team nba and defense for how many years?
        My bad, I thought the question was related more to publicity than production.

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        • #19
          One more thing, Stoudemire, Carter, McGrady and Bosh? Which one of those guys has led anybody to great heights? They all have a major character flaw and none of them are great leaders. They were all exciting scorers for the Raptors but the team was not going to win a ring with any of them leading the show. Do you think a guy like Kevin Durant would bail on the Raptors? I know I don't because he has too much pride and accountability to quit. They need to find the right stars. Drafting a guy with Kevin Durant ability may not be a realistic goal unless the Raptors land high in the lottery each year but drafting guys with the right psychological makeup is something that can be attainable every year. Mentally and/or physically soft "Me" players aren't getting you anywhere even if you're in love with the guy's scoring almost as much as he is.

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          • #20
            totally agree. that's why this years crop of prospects is so intriguing, they all seem very bright, hard working players.
            @sweatpantsjer

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            • #21
              Agrippa wrote: View Post
              Tim Duncan made his name with rings not pizzaz, Hakeem, Dwight, Shaq are all marketable names as bigs. A main reason for that is not their market, but the fact they play deep in the playoffs when everyone is watching
              Yeah, Timmy D. is on another level as a player, but I thought the question had more to do with playing for an American market vs. Canadian. Production of either player aside, would Duncan have gotten the media coverage if played in Toronto? And since I'm speaking hypothetically lets just say that he played with the team mates that Bosh did and wins didn't come so easy.

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              • #22
                Apollo wrote: View Post
                One more thing, Stoudemire, Carter, McGrady and Bosh? Which one of those guys has led anybody to great heights? They all have a major character flaw and none of them are great leaders. They were all exciting scorers for the Raptors but the team was not going to win a ring with any of them leading the show. Do you think a guy like Kevin Durant would bail on the Raptors? I know I don't because he has too much pride and accountability to quit. They need to find the right stars. Drafting a guy with Kevin Durant ability may not be a realistic goal unless the Raptors land high in the lottery each year but drafting guys with the right psychological makeup is something that can be attainable every year. Mentally and/or physically soft "Me" players aren't getting you anywhere even if you're in love with the guy's scoring almost as much as he is.
                Exactly.

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                • #23
                  Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                  Yeah, Timmy D. is on another level as a player, but I thought the question had more to do with playing for an American market vs. Canadian. Production of either player aside, would Duncan have gotten the media coverage if played in Toronto? And since I'm speaking hypothetically lets just say that he played with the team mates that Bosh did and wins didn't come so easy.
                  With Duncan it all comes down to winning. Even with all the rings he has I bet he's sold a lot less jerseys than some of the more "exciting" high flyers that never won anything. .

                  He's prob the best PF ever, but for a typical non-hardcore NBA fan he's pretty boring to watch.
                  Eh follow my TWITTER!

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                  • #24
                    Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                    Yeah, Timmy D. is on another level as a player, but I thought the question had more to do with playing for an American market vs. Canadian. Production of either player aside, would Duncan have gotten the media coverage if played in Toronto? And since I'm speaking hypothetically lets just say that he played with the team mates that Bosh did and wins didn't come so easy.
                    He would have got more exposure than Bosh did purely because he is better, and the team would have won more games. However, San Antonio gets more coverage because they are always good, and they've become the cliche well run small market team(Thunder encroaching on them). With those likeable high character guys that Apollo talked about. But Duncan is a two time MVP and who knows what would have went down had a guy like him played for the Raptors. So maybe San Antonio gets more coverage off prestige alone, but they earned that. Its got nothing to do with Canada or the USA. Its a franchise to franchise distinction, and a player to player distinction.

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                    • #25
                      Dalex wrote: View Post
                      @ ceez
                      thanks man
                      for future ref., you can hit the "reply with quote" button, it saves you from having to write some of the quirky names here and it also saves you from having to log in and then having to hit "post reply".

                      to your point, bautista is like vince carter was where he's playing like an mvp and carter was dunking on the entire world where bautista is hitting dingers left and right.

                      Bosh just failed to realize that he is not a good enough player to garner that attention and his best year he was putting up 20 and 10, only problem was so we're have the guys at his positions.

                      not to rip on the guy, but, a jump shooting pf isn't exactly as exciting as a home run king or a masterful dunker and people have finally come to realize that.

                      most people figured he was just underrated because nobody payed attention to toronto, but, now in miami they realize it wasn't the team, it was the player all along.

                      so, i don't think bautista's all star success proves bosh's theory wrong because i don't think it was a theory, and bosh certainly isn't going to prove that it is playing behing lbj and wade and getting two dunks a game acting like it's the best dunk anyone has ever seen every time.
                      Last edited by LBF; Tue Jul 5, 2011, 01:55 PM.
                      If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                      Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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                      • #26
                        ceez wrote: View Post
                        We're not talking about highlight reels we're talking about production and helping the team win. Blake does it, and yes the dunking over anyone and everyone helps. Duncan was universally praised by just about everyone for what he did. He may not have been on sportscenter ever but ive never heard anyone say a bad thing about him.

                        He was also first team nba and defense for how many years?
                        Tim Duncan is even "growing old" gracefully, with class and inclusive of team needs. He has taken a lesser role offensively to concentrate on defense and also minutes played so Popovich can manage his longevity and the inevitable.

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                        • #27
                          Bendit wrote: View Post
                          Tim Duncan is even "growing old" gracefully, with class and inclusive of team needs. He has taken a lesser role offensively to concentrate on defense and also minutes played so Popovich can manage his longevity and the inevitable.
                          He's the anti-Iverson.

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                          • #28
                            It is clear that Bosh has few hi-light moments in his game to warrant too many "letmeseethatagain" responses. It is also clear that Miami erred by not choosing Amare as their power forward f/a signing. He would also have been cheaper! In Bosh's defense how many people around him would actually tell him the truth about his game. Introspection can be difficult when you are successful. I think he is smart enough to have probably figured out by now that he was wrong about those thoughts of not enough exposure...or rather exposure unintended.

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                            • #29
                              Arsenalist wrote: View Post
                              If Bosh led the league in scoring like Bautista does with home runs, he would have gotten his due as well. Bosh overestimates his own marketability without realizing that the market/media isn't undervaluing or ignoring him, they're giving him the same amount of pub that is deserved of a player of his caliber. When Bosh was in Toronto, I'd say he got more pub than someone like David West, and those two are pretty much on par, I'd even say West is better.

                              Vince Carter led the league in All-Star votes by a distance while in Toronto, Roy Halladay was recognized every start on ESPN and so on. It's what you do, not where you play.
                              Thank you very much for including Roy Holliday in your post. I was about to do the same when I read yours. You are right. It is how you play not where you play. And also, he could have owned the Canadian Advertisements and be treated like royalty if he had stayed and played in Canada. Guess the grass might be greener on the other side but the water bill to keep that grass greener is more expensive. Great reply!

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                              • #30
                                Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                                Yeah, Timmy D. is on another level as a player, but I thought the question had more to do with playing for an American market vs. Canadian. Production of either player aside, would Duncan have gotten the media coverage if played in Toronto? And since I'm speaking hypothetically lets just say that he played with the team mates that Bosh did and wins didn't come so easy.
                                Duncan is the reason the Spurs have been so consistently good. He makes it very easy to fit players around him (makes management and coaches look good) as he does everything well and makes everyone so much better. He's also a leader who doesn't waiver on expectation...every game is a game to be won and everyone needs to be on board. When he retires the Spurs will go right back on the treadmill and people will wonder what happen to the Spurs magical ability to pick up useful scraps.

                                If he was with the Raptors the personnel would have been selected differently and with Duncan's attitude, he simply wouldn't have cared about the attention (by choice he has very few sponsors and he avoids the media). In the end I have no doubt he would be just as well recognized and respected as he is now. Now if he played with a high-profile/big basketball market he would be in constant discussions as one of top 5 greatest players ever (Russell type mystic) IMO.
                                Last edited by Raptoronto; Tue Jul 5, 2011, 02:48 PM.

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