Jonas Emerging (RealGM Article)

[Tim W.]

I am wondering if Bargnani and Jonas will get along. Seeing how Jonas is pretty fiery and takes defense seriously, and how Bargs often seems disinterested in playing defense, any bets on if/when Jonas opens his mouth about it and calls out our Italian friend?

I hope that when Valanciunas dons a Raptor jersey, Bargnani will be long gone.

[Tim W.]

having played 3 and 4 in college, I've felt that intensity on defence affects the accuracy of my jump shot. I've got no legs left to make a consistent shot. However, when i play an inside game as a 4, I am still able to play intensely on defence. So perhaps Bargnani knows this and he's keeping himself from getting too tired to make his jump shots. Whereas Jonas relies more on his athleticism rather than precision to get his points.

Sorry, but that sounds like yet another excuse for Bargnani. I'm tired of them. Either you take pride in defense or you don't. I can't play and not play hard on defense. I don't want players who don't take pride in defense.

[Bendit]

As much as a lot of people disliked the pick on draft night, the momentum is swinging the other way lately, bordering on over-hype. It would be interesting to see more of Jonas in the Euroleague (hopefully playing more minutes) where there are more players of his size to defend him.

For those who wanted to pick Kanter over him (or everyone else) though, now that you guys have seen more of Jonas' game, would you still want Kanter had he been available at 5?

Clearly those who visit sites like this frequently have a different perspective on a draft than fans who keep up with possible choices through the newspapers and sites like espn/yahoo etc. The consensus pick (as I saw it) made by various draft "gurus" out there for the Raptors was either Knight (if he fell) or Walker. The die was cast in a way. BC could not possibly pick another Euro big and with the Raps being perceived as deficient in the backcourt there were some PG options available at #5. Of course when both Knight & Kemba were passed over it was "shocking" to the erstwhile observer. Actually there were many on this forum who were similarly committed to the 2 pgs I mentioned as well. Walker was my choice if Kanter was unavailable but I was not dismissive of JV. I just did not have a good grip on his game inspite of quite a bit written on Draftexpress. Any videos of him I accessed seemed not to impress me. Kanter as a big just seemed more ready. I now look forward to their battles (if K plays the same position or if not with JV protecting the paint). Re your direct question, it is difficult to answer ...a) we havent seen Kanter play unlike JV after the draft b) JV is a Raptor, I was excited with his recent showing and of course has my support. The draft is what it was and over. c) One must not forget that Kanter plays on a better team so the early years might be more favorable to him.

[ebrian]

I hope that when Valanciunas dons a Raptor jersey, Bargnani will be long gone.

Amen to that! In fact if that's all it takes, I'd wish we had JV 3 years ago!

[Jaworski]

JV's attitude regarding being selected to the senior team...

„Tikiuosi, kad mane atrinks į rinktinę. Jeigu taip neatsitiktų, labai neliūdėčiau, nes tai būtų dar didesnė motyvacija daugiau dirbti ir stengtis".

"I hope that I am selected to the [senior] team. If this does not happen, it is not sad, because it would be even more motivation to work hard and try." - JV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX7Vo...eature=related

[Tim W.]

Amen to that! In fact if that's all it takes, I'd wish we had JV 3 years ago!

5.

[Quixotic]

For those who wanted to pick Kanter over him (or everyone else) though, now that you guys have seen more of Jonas' game, would you still want Kanter had he been available at 5?

I would, but obviously it's based on nothing more than gut feeling (as is most if not everyone else's opinion). I said back in May, that I'd prefer this order of players (with tiers now indicated by the gaps):

Irving
Kanter
Williams

Knight
Walker
Burks
Leonard
Valanciunas
Biyombo
Thompson

Vesely
Singleton

The only change I'd make is to move Leonard down to the third grouping, just ahead of Vesely. I don't remember putting him up so high, but I guess you could attribute it to hindsight (even though it really wasn't!). I'm still concerned about Valanciunas' ability to adapt to the NBA, as his foul rate was super high in Europe and I believe the players there tend to get away with more, but I'm okay with the pick. This really wasn't one of those drafts where anyone really had any right to get flustered with the selection. I view it as a gamble (but I like gambles for a team this bad), but even Irving and Williams were shaky top two picks.

[Tim W.]

I would, but obviously it's based on nothing more than gut feeling (as is most if not everyone else's opinion). I said back in May, that I'd prefer this order of players (with tiers now indicated by the gaps):

Irving
Kanter
Williams

Knight
Walker
Burks
Leonard
Valanciunas
Biyombo
Thompson

Vesely
Singleton

The only change I'd make is to move Leonard down to the third grouping, just ahead of Vesely. I don't remember putting him up so high, but I guess you could attribute it to hindsight (even though it really wasn't!). I'm still concerned about Valanciunas' ability to adapt to the NBA, as his foul rate was super high in Europe and I believe the players there tend to get away with more, but I'm okay with the pick. This really wasn't one of those drafts where anyone really had any right to get flustered with the selection. I view it as a gamble (but I like gambles for a team this bad), but even Irving and Williams were shaky top two picks.

We differ a lot on those rankings. A lot more than usual.

I was going to type it out, but posting the link is easier...
http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...nal-wish-list/

In short, I had Valanciunas in the top group and Singleton in my "do not draft" group.

[Quixotic]

We differ a lot on those rankings. A lot more than usual.

I was going to type it out, but posting the link is easier...
http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...nal-wish-list/

In short, I had Valanciunas in the top group and Singleton in my "do not draft" group.

Yeah, I just wasn't that high on Valanciunas. I'm not prejudiced against him for being non-American (I do have Kanter as my #2), but I'd like to see those foul numbers down in his second season with Rytas. Still, I applaud the pick though.

My preferred list really ended after #3 with Williams; after that, I wasn't against picking anyone within Tier 2. I really didn't want Vesely or Singleton, but figured that if we didn't get anyone we wanted, we should at least get someone that another team might want. Vesely at #11 would have been a steal, but apparently I reached on Singleton. =/

[Tim W.]

Yeah, I just wasn't that high on Valanciunas. I'm not prejudiced against him for being non-American (I do have Kanter as my #2), but I'd like to see those foul numbers down in his second season with Rytas. Still, I applaud the pick though.

My preferred list really ended after #3 with Williams; after that, I wasn't against picking anyone within Tier 2. I really didn't want Vesely or Singleton, but figured that if we didn't get anyone we wanted, we should at least get someone that another team might want. Vesely at #11 would have been a steal, but apparently I reached on Singleton. =/

Admit it. You're a god damn racist, you xenophobic bastard!

I actually had reservations about Valanciunas for the exact same reason, but I still had him fourth on my list. What made me like him more, although not enough to go above any of the other top three, was the fact that the Spurs were apparently trying to move up to draft him. To me, that was big. The next two on my list were Leonard and Biyombo and after that I wasn't thrilled with anyone.

[BC Boy]

Originally I was very disappointed with the Valanciunas pick. I had previewed a lot of the draftees videos/highlight packages and thought Valanciunas was stiff and unathletic. However, Jonas' value comes in watching a complete game. I will say that I beleive part of my ignorance comes from being a Raptor's fan that has not seen a true Center for quite some time and undervaluing the impact they can have without having a great offensive game.

[Soft Euro]

Yeah, I just wasn't that high on Valanciunas. I'm not prejudiced against him for being non-American (I do have Kanter as my #2), but I'd like to see those foul numbers down in his second season with Rytas. Still, I applaud the pick though.

While i'm sure he'll have to adjust to the nba rules, I'm not at all that worried about his foulingrate. With his team he played backup minutes, and in those minutes he fouled a lot. But he was just using his fouls, I mean, he could foul because he didn't play 40 minutes anyway, so looking at fouls per 40 min. as some people did gives a misleading picture. I know he fouled out in the u19s (2 games?) but in the games that his team needed him to stay on the floor he did not foul out at all. I don't think it will even be an Amir-like problem. But if he is asked to play 20 minutes in his first season I'd be ok with him averaging 6+ fouls per 36 minutes. You got all those fouls, so why not use them.

[Tim W.]

While i'm sure he'll have to adjust to the nba rules, I'm not at all that worried about his foulingrate. With his team he played backup minutes, and in those minutes he fouled a lot. But he was just using his fouls, I mean, he could foul because he didn't play 40 minutes anyway, so looking at fouls per 40 min. as some people did gives a misleading picture. I know he fouled out in the u19s (2 games?) but in the games that his team needed him to stay on the floor he did not foul out at all. I don't think it will even be an Amir-like problem. But if he is asked to play 20 minutes in his first season I'd be ok with him averaging 6+ fouls per 36 minutes. You got all those fouls, so why not use them.

I believe he only fouled out in one game in the U19 and his foul rate was quite a bit better. It did alleviate my fears about that quite a bit. I still think it will take him time to adjust to the speed and strength of the players and the way games are called in the NBA, but I'm not nearly as worried as I was.

[Soft Euro]

I believe he only fouled out in one game in the U19 and his foul rate was quite a bit better. It did alleviate my fears about that quite a bit. I still think it will take him time to adjust to the speed and strength of the players and the way games are called in the NBA, but I'm not nearly as worried as I was.

Exactly. And probably a lot of his fouls were while playing in the post where his strenght was lacking. I he doesn't improve his lowerbody strength before he comes over I would rather have him keep fouling and playing limited minutes untill he is strong enough. In the u19s this wasn't a real problem.

[Bouncepass]

Sorry, but that sounds like yet another excuse for Bargnani. I'm tired of them. Either you take pride in defense or you don't. I can't play and not play hard on defense. I don't want players who don't take pride in defense.

I agree. I wonder if Kevin Garnett will post a response on this discussion forum too talking about how playing good and intense defense doesn't mean you have to give up an effective mid-range shooting game.