Except we actually have a reason to actually like him so....
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DeMar DeRozan's Potential
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In order to really discuss Derozan's potential I found the best way is to compare him with other top tier wings in the league. I don't necessarily mean Wade, Kobe or Jordan because those are very special players. But I think it makes sense to start looking at some all-star talented guys and compare their first two season's with Derozan's and to see how far Derozan is from someone who would be considered a top talented player, and not just some scrub you could throw away for any draft pick.
So here are stats I pulled from basketball-reference.com:
Code:Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 09/10 Demar Derozan 20 21.4 8.6 2.9 49.8 76.3 0.7 0.8 0.6 12.5 2.3 110 115 18.1 10/11 Demar Derozan 21 34.5 17.2 3.8 46.7 81.3 1.8 1.8 1.0 14.4 3.3 106 114 23.1 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 96/97 Ray Allen 21 30.9 13.4 4.0 43.0 82.3 2.6 1.8 0.9 14.6 4.9 109 110 21.4 97/98 Ray Allen 22 40.1 19.5 4.9 42.8 87.5 4.3 3.2 1.4 16.2 7.0 106 108 24.3 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 05/06 Monta Ellis 20 18.1 6.8 2.1 41.5 71.2 1.6 1.2 0.7 11.1 0.5 95 107 20.2 06/07 Monta Ellis 21 34.3 16.5 3.2 47.5 76.3 4.1 2.9 1.7 15.0 4.0 104 109 22.4 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 06/07 Rudy Gay 20 27.0 10.8 4.5 42.2 72.7 1.3 1.8 0.9 12.4 0.5 96 111 21.3 07/08 Rudy Gay 21 37.0 20.1 6.2 46.1 78.5 2.0 2.3 1.4 17.4 5.0 106 110 25.0 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 05/06 Danny Granger 22 22.6 7.5 4.9 46.2 77.7 1.2 1.0 0.7 14.7 5.1 110 101 16.4 06/07 Danny Granger 23 34.0 13.9 4.6 45.9 80.3 1.4 1.6 0.8 13.9 6.5 111 107 18.2 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 99/00 Rich. Hamilton 21 19.3 9.0 1.8 42.0 77.4 1.5 1.2 0.4 11.6 0.7 98 111 24.2 00/01 Rich. Hamilton 22 32.3 18.1 3.1 43.8 86.8 2.9 2.6 1.0 15.7 2.4 100 111 28.1 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 04/05 Andre Iguodala 21 32.8 9.0 5.7 49.3 74.3 3.0 1.7 1.7 13.5 6.6 110 102 12.8 05/06 Andre Iguodala 22 37.6 12.3 5.9 50.0 75.4 3.1 1.9 1.6 14.8 7.5 115 108 14.7 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 01/02 Rich. Jefferson 21 24.3 9.4 3.7 45.7 71.3 1.8 1.4 0.8 13.4 4.7 104 101 19.1 02/03 Rich. Jefferson 22 36.0 15.5 6.4 50.1 74.3 2.5 2.0 1.0 16.6 9.9 111 100 19.7 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 01/02 Joe Johnson 20 24.9 7.5 3.3 43.0 77.4 2.3 0.9 0.77 11.8 3.0 102 105 16.0 02/03 Joe Johnson 21 27.3 9.8 3.2 39.7 77.4 2.6 1.3 0.8 12.10 2.8 99 105 19.1 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 04/05 Kevin Martin 21 10.1 2.9 1.3 38.5 65.5 0.5 0.5 0.4 8.7 0.1 96 111 16.1 05/06 Kevin Martin 22 26.6 10.8 3.6 48.0 84.7 1.3 1.1 0.8 14.8 5.5 116 107 17.4 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 98/99 Paul Pierce 21 34.0 16.5 6.4 43.9 71.3 2.4 2.4 1.7 19.2 4.9 106 101 23.1 99/00 Paul Pierce 22 35.4 19.5 5.4 44.2 79.8 3.0 2.4 2.1 19.8 8.2 109 103 24.8 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 01/02 Michael Redd* 22 21.1 11.4 3.3 48.3 79.1 1.4 0.9 0.6 20.0 4.6 116 109 23.7 02/03 Michael Redd* 23 28.2 15.1 4.5 46.9 80.5 1.4 0.9 1.2 21.0 8.0 118 108 22.6 * Rookie Year only played 6 games, so not including it
I'd say the best comparison might be between Joe Johnson, Richard Hamilton, and Monta Ellis. Derozan definitely needs to improve in some areas. His defense may improve with Casey on board - but if it does not improve or slips, then I would definitely consider him a tradeable asset. The other area he needs to improve on is his assists. Although his ball handling skills is a known deficiency in his game. Hopefully that improves or else he can become an easy target on defense. Rebounds are low too, but he's a guard. That's not really a critical skill for his role on the team.
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But throughout the season his handle improved...especially towards the end when he would be aggressive, at times he would bring it up court to set a play or sometimes he would drive and make a play, try looking at GameEntertainment's mix on YT
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planetmars wrote: View PostIn order to really discuss Derozan's potential I found the best way is to compare him with other top tier wings in the league. I don't necessarily mean Wade, Kobe or Jordan because those are very special players. But I think it makes sense to start looking at some all-star talented guys and compare their first two season's with Derozan's and to see how far Derozan is from someone who would be considered a top talented player, and not just some scrub you could throw away for any draft pick.
So here are stats I pulled from basketball-reference.com:
Code:Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 09/10 Demar Derozan 20 21.4 8.6 2.9 49.8 76.3 0.7 0.8 0.6 12.5 2.3 110 115 18.1 10/11 Demar Derozan 21 34.5 17.2 3.8 46.7 81.3 1.8 1.8 1.0 14.4 3.3 106 114 23.1 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 96/97 Ray Allen 21 30.9 13.4 4.0 43.0 82.3 2.6 1.8 0.9 14.6 4.9 109 110 21.4 97/98 Ray Allen 22 40.1 19.5 4.9 42.8 87.5 4.3 3.2 1.4 16.2 7.0 106 108 24.3 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 05/06 Monta Ellis 20 18.1 6.8 2.1 41.5 71.2 1.6 1.2 0.7 11.1 0.5 95 107 20.2 06/07 Monta Ellis 21 34.3 16.5 3.2 47.5 76.3 4.1 2.9 1.7 15.0 4.0 104 109 22.4 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 06/07 Rudy Gay 20 27.0 10.8 4.5 42.2 72.7 1.3 1.8 0.9 12.4 0.5 96 111 21.3 07/08 Rudy Gay 21 37.0 20.1 6.2 46.1 78.5 2.0 2.3 1.4 17.4 5.0 106 110 25.0 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 05/06 Danny Granger 22 22.6 7.5 4.9 46.2 77.7 1.2 1.0 0.7 14.7 5.1 110 101 16.4 06/07 Danny Granger 23 34.0 13.9 4.6 45.9 80.3 1.4 1.6 0.8 13.9 6.5 111 107 18.2 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 99/00 Rich. Hamilton 21 19.3 9.0 1.8 42.0 77.4 1.5 1.2 0.4 11.6 0.7 98 111 24.2 00/01 Rich. Hamilton 22 32.3 18.1 3.1 43.8 86.8 2.9 2.6 1.0 15.7 2.4 100 111 28.1 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 04/05 Andre Iguodala 21 32.8 9.0 5.7 49.3 74.3 3.0 1.7 1.7 13.5 6.6 110 102 12.8 05/06 Andre Iguodala 22 37.6 12.3 5.9 50.0 75.4 3.1 1.9 1.6 14.8 7.5 115 108 14.7 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 01/02 Rich. Jefferson 21 24.3 9.4 3.7 45.7 71.3 1.8 1.4 0.8 13.4 4.7 104 101 19.1 02/03 Rich. Jefferson 22 36.0 15.5 6.4 50.1 74.3 2.5 2.0 1.0 16.6 9.9 111 100 19.7 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 01/02 Joe Johnson 20 24.9 7.5 3.3 43.0 77.4 2.3 0.9 0.77 11.8 3.0 102 105 16.0 02/03 Joe Johnson 21 27.3 9.8 3.2 39.7 77.4 2.6 1.3 0.8 12.10 2.8 99 105 19.1 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 04/05 Kevin Martin 21 10.1 2.9 1.3 38.5 65.5 0.5 0.5 0.4 8.7 0.1 96 111 16.1 05/06 Kevin Martin 22 26.6 10.8 3.6 48.0 84.7 1.3 1.1 0.8 14.8 5.5 116 107 17.4 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 98/99 Paul Pierce 21 34.0 16.5 6.4 43.9 71.3 2.4 2.4 1.7 19.2 4.9 106 101 23.1 99/00 Paul Pierce 22 35.4 19.5 5.4 44.2 79.8 3.0 2.4 2.1 19.8 8.2 109 103 24.8 Year Name Age Min Pts Rbs FG% FT% Asst Turn Stl PER WS ORtg DRtg USG% 01/02 Michael Redd* 22 21.1 11.4 3.3 48.3 79.1 1.4 0.9 0.6 20.0 4.6 116 109 23.7 02/03 Michael Redd* 23 28.2 15.1 4.5 46.9 80.5 1.4 0.9 1.2 21.0 8.0 118 108 22.6 * Rookie Year only played 6 games, so not including it
I'd say the best comparison might be between Joe Johnson, Richard Hamilton, and Monta Ellis. Derozan definitely needs to improve in some areas. His defense may improve with Casey on board - but if it does not improve or slips, then I would definitely consider him a tradeable asset. The other area he needs to improve on is his assists. Although his ball handling skills is a known deficiency in his game. Hopefully that improves or else he can become an easy target on defense. Rebounds are low too, but he's a guard. That's not really a critical skill for his role on the team.
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Prime wrote: View PostI don't see the point of the stats here if you're just gonna do an opinion piece rather than an analysis
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planetmars wrote: View PostI guess my point was that I was trying to back up my opinion with stats, and that its too early to tell what Derozan is going to end up like given that he's only played two full years for the Raptors. When comparing him with other top talents in the league you can argue that his stats are very close to others. So to indicate that he should be traded for any draft pick is a little to premature. He could end up being the next Joe Johnson, who may not be an elite athlete like Jordan, Kobe or Wade - but still a top tier talent in the league. I would not trade Joe Johnson for a top pick in next years draft.
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Hear me out, but i think Derozan might actually average 25/5/3, he already averages 17.2/3.8/1.8, so if you round that up thats already 17/4/2 and don't forget his slump in the beginning where Sonny Weems was averaging more points, rebounds and assists, he can definitely average more than 20+ points, and he'll get better at rebounding and being a ballhandler, as he shown improvement from his rookie season, if you look at his game logs starting from Dec 31 against Houston where he had 37 points, a quick glance will make it look like he avg'ed 25/5/3 and if you actually averaged the game out I'm pretty sure you'll get similar #'s
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er1csh3n wrote: View PostHear me out, but i think Derozan might actually average 25/5/3, he already averages 17.2/3.8/1.8, so if you round that up thats already 17/4/2 and don't forget his slump in the beginning where Sonny Weems was averaging more points, rebounds and assists, he can definitely average more than 20+ points, and he'll get better at rebounding and being a ballhandler, as he shown improvement from his rookie season, if you look at his game logs starting from Dec 31 against Houston where he had 37 points, a quick glance will make it look like he avg'ed 25/5/3 and if you actually averaged the game out I'm pretty sure you'll get similar #'s
From Dec. 31 - April 13, he averaged 20 Points, 4.2 rebounds, and 2 assists.
(His Stats)
If he can maintain the status quo, and his momentum, from how he finished off the season, I see no reason why he couldn't.
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I've been a fan of DeRozan since before he was drafted, and have been a defender of him throughout his Raptor career....but....all this talk of him averaging this or that really doesn't take into account the area that he needs to improve the most in: Defense. I'd rather he average the same stats as last year and became a better than average defender, than averaging 25-6-4 and only slightly improved defense. Otherwise he's just a taller Monta Ellis, and I want nothing to do with him.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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Tim W. wrote: View PostI've been a fan of DeRozan since before he was drafted, and have been a defender of him throughout his Raptor career....but....all this talk of him averaging this or that really doesn't take into account the area that he needs to improve the most in: Defense. I'd rather he average the same stats as last year and became a better than average defender, than averaging 25-6-4 and only slightly improved defense. Otherwise he's just a taller Monta Ellis, and I want nothing to do with him.
But I'd say, in that time frame I discussed earlier, his defense was far more improved than earlier in the season, and especially so over his Rookie season. His footwork improved, his tenacity improved, and given his Elite Athletic abilities, decent wingspan, incredible leaping ability, I see no reason why he can't turn himself into an Elite defender.
Kobe wasn't a reliable defender by any means for his first few seasons, but he put in the work and turned himself into one of the best perimeter defenders in the league.
He'll come around.
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joey_hesketh wrote: View PostKobe wasn't a reliable defender by any means for his first few seasons, but he put in the work and turned himself into one of the best perimeter defenders in the league.
According to the stats anyways, Kobe's defense today is just as good as it was when he started in the league. His offense and the other intangibles like assists and rebounds is what really improved over the years.
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DeRozan has never been a decent defender. He's shown some potential, but in his rookie season he was not a good defender. I don't see elite potential, and I'm not really sure how anyone else does. He simply doesn't have elite level instincts. You'd have seen that by now, young or not. I do believe he could end up being a good defender, especially with his attitude and work ethic, though.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
Follow me on Twitter.
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He is a gymrat, besides defense is not like offensive where more talent is required, but involves more experience, timing, and hardwork. Derozan by no means is a good defender, but unlike Bargnani, DD is willing to work towards both sides of his game, not to mention he has an exceptional wingspan 6'9-6'10, 6'7 as a SG. and he performed above average in lateral quickness and sprints(not as fast as i expected) and has a 40' max vert, this guy could be a beast(not exaggerating) and terror for SGs if he can actually stay in front of them
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