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Thread: Censorship and intolerance

  1. #1
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    Default Censorship and intolerance

    I am starting this thread because I feel that Axel has bullied and intimidated myself and other posters who disagree with the sense of control and limits of discussion he has placed on many posters with whom there is disagreement. I am a longtime member and poster. I have not engaged in name calling. I would point out the rationale for locking the DD thread , though I disagree with, I could understand how mods could see it that way. Unfortunately mods don't weigh the interests of the many to the headaches of the few. Stifling and limiting debate is not the way to go imo . Mods can maintain it is not but I strongly disagree . To me this site has become a dictatorship. As someone who has travelled in countries with dictators the fear of its citizens is not unwarranted. Re intolerance when one fails to consider an alternative view point and makes decisions that limit the expression of its membership they are in essence intolerant of their members

    This will probably be my last post. I find the tone and attitude of some mods dismissive and condescending . Sometimes people claim to be openinded and tolerate yet fail to truly consider the other side of things.

    I fully expect this thread to be locked or deleted and that will to me , reaffirm to me that my concerns are valid.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer rocwell's Avatar
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    DD-JV discussion was messed up for a very long time. I think mods did pretty good job. Smart people ignored discussions related to DD and JV cuz we all know how it ended. Some people just don't know when to shut their mout...urm.. fingers. Ha.

    Leave that thread closed for a while ( until training camp ) and then re-open it. This shit will get better over time anyway.

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  5. #3
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mindlessness's Avatar
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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    I am starting this thread because I feel that Axel has bullied and intimidated myself and other posters who disagree with the sense of control and limits of discussion he has placed on many posters with whom there is disagreement. I am a longtime member and poster. I have not engaged in name calling. I would point out the rationale for locking the DD thread , though I disagree with, I could understand how mods could see it that way. Unfortunately mods don't weigh the interests of the many to the headaches of the few. Stifling and limiting debate is not the way to go imo . Mods can maintain it is not but I strongly disagree . To me this site has become a dictatorship. As someone who has travelled in countries with dictators the fear of its citizens is not unwarranted. Re intolerance when one fails to consider an alternative view point and makes decisions that limit the expression of its membership they are in essence intolerant of their members

    This will probably be my last post. I find the tone and attitude of some mods dismissive and condescending . Sometimes people claim to be openinded and tolerate yet fail to truly consider the other side of things.

    I fully expect this thread to be locked or deleted and that will to me , reaffirm to me that my concerns are valid.
    Don't mix up many posts by a few posters as evidence for the interests of the many. There are a lot more posters I've seen who don't want that thread re-opened until a later date, so to the interests of the many, the mods have done a great job.

  6. #4
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    I am starting this thread because I feel that Axel has bullied and intimidated myself and other posters who disagree with the sense of control and limits of discussion he has placed on many posters with whom there is disagreement. I am a longtime member and poster. I have not engaged in name calling. I would point out the rationale for locking the DD thread , though I disagree with, I could understand how mods could see it that way. Unfortunately mods don't weigh the interests of the many to the headaches of the few. Stifling and limiting debate is not the way to go imo . Mods can maintain it is not but I strongly disagree . To me this site has become a dictatorship. As someone who has travelled in countries with dictators the fear of its citizens is not unwarranted. Re intolerance when one fails to consider an alternative view point and makes decisions that limit the expression of its membership they are in essence intolerant of their members

    This will probably be my last post. I find the tone and attitude of some mods dismissive and condescending . Sometimes people claim to be openinded and tolerate yet fail to truly consider the other side of things.

    I fully expect this thread to be locked or deleted and that will to me , reaffirm to me that my concerns are valid.
    A single thread was closed and you have been reminded numerous times, by multiple Admins/Mods, that you and every other poster are free to start any new threads you want.

    Concern has been expressed that without something new or noteworthy to discuss (re: DeRozan), any thread new or old, could devolve into what the 'Everything DeRozan' thread had become - a pissing match full of personal attacks and one-upsmanship. That thread caused many posters to avoid the forum during the dog days of summer, with an exponential increase in reported posts, along with multiple bans.

    The Admins/Mods simply wanted to prevent that from happening, since there's usually great discussion and passionate debate, without all that sort of mud-flinging. Again, if you feel there's something new about DeRozan that you'd like to discuss, then start a new thread. Since the 'Everything DeRozan' thread has been closed (and my guess is that it won't stay closed forever), not a single new DeRozan thread has been created, by you or anybody else. Until you've tried, you really don't have the right to accuse the Admins/Mods of any sort of censorship, beyond thread management that is publicized within the forum rules.

    Cheers,
    CRF

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  8. #5
    Super Moderator Axel's Avatar
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    If anyone ever feels bullied or intimidated by me, then please PM another Mod or Admin with the specifics.

    However, reiterating rules of the forum (as they are posted on the site) shouldn't be seen as bullying.
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

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  10. #6
    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    I am starting this thread because I feel that Axel has bullied and intimidated myself and other posters who disagree with the sense of control and limits of discussion he has placed on many posters with whom there is disagreement. I am a longtime member and poster. I have not engaged in name calling. I would point out the rationale for locking the DD thread , though I disagree with, I could understand how mods could see it that way. Unfortunately mods don't weigh the interests of the many to the headaches of the few. Stifling and limiting debate is not the way to go imo . Mods can maintain it is not but I strongly disagree . To me this site has become a dictatorship. As someone who has travelled in countries with dictators the fear of its citizens is not unwarranted. Re intolerance when one fails to consider an alternative view point and makes decisions that limit the expression of its membership they are in essence intolerant of their members

    This will probably be my last post. I find the tone and attitude of some mods dismissive and condescending . Sometimes people claim to be openinded and tolerate yet fail to truly consider the other side of things.

    I fully expect this thread to be locked or deleted and that will to me , reaffirm to me that my concerns are valid.
    Appreciate the feedback psrs1. It's a shame you feel the forums here are run like a dictatorship, but in our own defense there's a ton of rubbish that most don't see that the staff here have to sift through on a day-to-day basis. If that's what adds to the sense of this board being run with an iron fist, I'll take full responsibility and apologize in advance. We're just trying to ensure that things run a smooth as a public message board can be run. In most cases its hard to please everyone.

    We'd be sorry to see you leave because you are solid contributor here at RR, but if that's what you feel you need to do then I understand and wish you the best.

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  12. #7
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Honestly, if Posters realized how many fires are put out on a weekly basis they might change their tunes and instead have some thanks for the moderators. Moderators are pretty much in a thankless voluntary position, with the main objective to help foster a fun, constructive environment in this community. Without them this place wouldn't be what you see today and you probably wouldn't be here to complain because you would see no value in spending time here to begin with.

    As far as I know no one has forbidden anyone from talking about any topics. Nor has anyone ever done that before here.

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    Super Moderator Cody73's Avatar
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    That is all. Enjoy your time here with this one rule, and we'll all be okay.
    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Now Cody can stop posting about this guy and we have a poster to blame if anything goes wrong!!
    It starts with ....

    "tenforthewin wrote:"

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    Quote Dr. James Naismith wrote: View Post
    Appreciate the feedback psrs1. It's a shame you feel the forums here are run like a dictatorship, but in our own defense there's a ton of rubbish that most don't see that the staff here have to sift through on a day-to-day basis. If that's what adds to the sense of this board being run with an iron fist, I'll take full responsibility and apologize in advance. We're just trying to ensure that things run a smooth as a public message board can be run. In most cases its hard to please everyone.

    We'd be sorry to see you leave because you are solid contributor here at RR, but if that's what you feel you need to do then I understand and wish you the best.
    I appreciate your response. I have considered things and still feel that , at times, mods do not carefully consider an alternative perspective. The tone of some ofthe responses , imo, does come across as condescending and arrogant. Whether or not that or not is the intent I do not know . One can say 'enforcing the rules' with a quick response to something a mod reviews does not agree--it takes a certain level of maturity to not immediately respond and carefully weigh the context and source and history of the poster. It is easy to say 'move on' but imo that is just deflecting and not responding to the raised concern.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    A single thread was closed and you have been reminded numerous times, by multiple Admins/Mods, that you and every other poster are free to start any new threads you want.

    Concern has been expressed that without something new or noteworthy to discuss (re: DeRozan), any thread new or old, could devolve into what the 'Everything DeRozan' thread had become - a pissing match full of personal attacks and one-upsmanship. That thread caused many posters to avoid the forum during the dog days of summer, with an exponential increase in reported posts, along with multiple bans.

    The Admins/Mods simply wanted to prevent that from happening, since there's usually great discussion and passionate debate, without all that sort of mud-flinging. Again, if you feel there's something new about DeRozan that you'd like to discuss, then start a new thread. Since the 'Everything DeRozan' thread has been closed (and my guess is that it won't stay closed forever), not a single new DeRozan thread has been created, by you or anybody else. Until you've tried, you really don't have the right to accuse the Admins/Mods of any sort of censorship, beyond thread management that is publicized within the forum rules.

    Cheers,
    CRF
    CRF. I did wish to bring into the DD discussion the impact of where he is in his family life cycle will impact all sides moving forward re possible max contract next season. This is a specific example for you which you can review that I raised and wished to discuss in the Everything DD thread. I don't think it is fair for you to to say 'you don't have the right to accuse ...' To me the tone of that comment is condescending. You use the the word 'accuse' --I would suggest I was raising a legitimate concern with which you obviously do not agree . I hope you can consider how the tone of that comment can be perceived as such.

    psrs1

  18. #11
    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    psrs1


    simmer down my man.

    Few are as brilliant, and misunderstood as myself, if I do say so...myself!!!

    :\

    You do not get a tenth of the backhands to the teeth i get, nor the ridicule or outright ignorant treatment from a lot of the posters who do not understand my brilliance, yet still, no threads started to strike down the perceived hand of intolerance.

    My point?

    It's sports.
    Its entertainment.
    Its not really that important....in fact, on the list of about a billion priorities of thought, the posts you read here are someplace between;

    Do I feel bad about stepping on that ant.

    And

    What is Madonna's favourite colour??

    (no offence to ant enthusiasts, Buddhists or Madonna fans)

    When you feel like reading posts are offensive, and you feel like lashing out, calling out, or basically being mad, you are no longer enjoying the forum for what it is intended for. that's when its time to take a break buddy. Just log out for a few weeks. Anything you do in life too intensely will lead to unhappiness, unbalance and negativity. I have been there, McHappy, Doc, a bunch of guys, we have all been there. Its amazing how silly you feel when you step back for a bit and look at how far down the rat hole you have traveled.

    I would hope you know that none of your fuckface "Mods", or any of the other posters likely think badly of you, or even this thread.... moreso, we all just see you have hit that point where it might be time to go hibernate for a bit. We all do it, like bears (or for me, majestic, fire breathing Dragons). Go play ball, work out, spend time with your family or lady/man friends. And when you wake up one day and think.... "shit, I havent caught up with my raps buddies in a while" THAT is when its safe to return.

    Stay safe bud, stay happy. Life is short.

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    My god, another dd thread....

    Start a thread. Spread the excitement of dd family life posts. Im sure it will get singles of responses.....

    Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk

  20. #13
    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    Youre a straight up Dick Snoochy.



    Hahahaha

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  22. #14
    Super Moderator Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Superjudge wrote: View Post
    we all just see you have hit that point where it might be time to go hibernate for a bit. We all do it, like bears (or for me, majestic, fire breathing Dragons).
    In what was a fantastic post, this might be the best thing I've ever read on a forum. I will forever picture you as a dragon sir.
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

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  24. #15
    Super Moderator Axel's Avatar
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    Few quick thoughts for psrs1 concerns.

    1. Tone in writing is largely decided by the reader not the writer. When the text is black and white, hard to really assign tone.

    2. When a message or post is being sent with regards to rules, yes, it probably lacks some of the niceties that would soften the blow. But that is because it is probably not the first message/post of the day for the same type of thing. We are volunteers with real jobs and families and taking the time away from the fun (reading and discussing basketball et all) to remind someone of the basic rules of the site is is tedious and annoying. So being abrupt or to the point is fairly necessary or we'd spend all day crafting our messages. Whenever Joey gave me warnings to the effect of "knock it off" I didn't begrudge Joey for not writing a formal response with pleasantries.

    3. When multiple mods have posted regarding a topic and explaining a decision, continuing to post about it in a thread that supposed to be about basketball isn't fair to anyone trying to read the site. As always, if you have concerns, send a PM or start a thread like you have here.

    4. If you wish to talk about DDs family life and it's impacts, you can and have been encouraged to by several mods. I do not understand how you can claim censorship based on this very fact.

    5. You mention that telling you to "move on" is deflecting the concerns raised, but there is a specific forum rule explicitly saying "don't debate, criticize, etc decisions by forum staff"; so we are under no obligation to have the conversation with you. You made your point, and you received multiple responses. That should be end of story and if you feel the need to further explain, as mentioned above, send a PM, don't keep trying to force your opinion.

    6th and final point. Since you specifically are calling me out for being a bully and not considering your viewpoint, I take great exception to your antics. You don't know me and you don't know the discussions that all mods have had regarding this issue. I am a human being too and never in any post/message have I degraded you or your opinion as much as you have me in this thread. So you call me a bully for reminding you of forum rules while enforcing a decision I didn't make (I didn't lock the thread) to try and get us to conform to your opinion. Who is bullying who here? If you are going to call me out for something, damn well should be a good reason.

    Also note, we haven't edited or deleted your post, so your concerns are here for all to see.
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

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  26. #16
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Superjudge wrote: View Post
    I would hope you know that none of your fuckface "Mods", or any of the other posters likely think badly of you, or even this thread.... moreso, we all just see you have hit that point where it might be time to go hibernate for a bit. We all do it, like bears (or for me, majestic, fire breathing Dragons). Go play ball, work out, spend time with your family or lady/man friends. And when you wake up one day and think.... "shit, I havent caught up with my raps buddies in a while" THAT is when its safe to return.

    Stay safe bud, stay happy. Life is short.
    This never hurts. I mean I myself am now chasing Jordans record for most unretirements. This place is a lot of fun but it's heathy to tune out from it occassonally.

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  28. #17
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Few quick thoughts for psrs1 concerns.

    1. Tone in writing is largely decided by the reader not the writer. When the text is black and white, hard to really assign tone.

    2. When a message or post is being sent with regards to rules, yes, it probably lacks some of the niceties that would soften the blow. But that is because it is probably not the first message/post of the day for the same type of thing. ....

    5. You mention that telling you to "move on" is deflecting the concerns raised, but there is a specific forum rule explicitly saying "don't debate, criticize, etc decisions by forum staff"; so we are under no obligation to have the conversation with you. You made your point, and you received multiple responses. That should be end of story and if you feel the need to further explain, as mentioned above, send a PM, don't keep trying to force your opinion.

    6th and final point. Since you specifically are calling me out for being a bully and not considering your viewpoint, I take great exception to your antics. You don't know me and you don't know the discussions that all mods have had regarding this issue. I am a human being too and never in any post/message have I degraded you or your opinion as much as you have me in this thread. So you call me a bully for reminding you of forum rules while enforcing a decision I didn't make (I didn't lock the thread) to try and get us to conform to your opinion. Who is bullying who here? If you are going to call me out for something, damn well should be a good reason.

    Also note, we haven't edited or deleted your post, so your concerns are here for all to see.
    I feel obliged to say something here. psrs1 is raising concerns that I share and so I don't think it fair to let him twist in the wind, alone, on this.

    I offered you a quotation, Axel, in a private message, when you told me that you just don't care if I don't like your "tone" (and I could either simply do as you required, and enjoy the site, or leave). The quotation is that which has often appeared on the masthead of the Globe and Mail newspaper, from Junius:

    "The citizen who will submit to arbitrary measures is no friend of the King."

    Which is to say that the citizen who will speak up when others might be too afraid - who will, as it is often put, "speak truth to power" - ought to receive a genuine audience ... and should perhaps be admired rather than belittled or "fobbed off".

    Certainly moderators provide an essential service here. And it must be, at times, like herding cats, or refereeing at a daycare. I think most of us "get" that. Truly.

    But there is this from A Few Good Men: "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!"

    The first sign that someone isn't prepared to deal with the truth is that they go straight into denial. Your point one, above, Axel, seeks to suggest that one can't be condescending in "black and white" - that any tone is "read in".

    Honestly, does anyone think this is actually true?

    I have, essentially, done as SuperJudge has just suggested after becoming embroiled with a handful of moderators and Administrators who took exception to my arguing for considering Markieff Morris as an acquisition. I was told I was "making no sense", that I was simply "making things up", "arguing semantics". I was told to "move on" (or else) and received a number of warnings from Axel. I had posts deleted. The suggestion that I could have called in other moderators is laughable ... as other moderators were regularly "liking" the posts I have just complained of ... if not adding to them. Ultimately the thread was closed ... honestly because the whole spectacle of Mods/Admins rallying around to insist my view was fatuous, and poorly argued, became unseemly, I think (in part, perhaps).

    I take no view on whether a thread ought to be closed or not. Honestly I can only imagine how tedious and annoying it might become to moderate certain threads, sometimes. And so I can see how, sometimes, it might be fairly decided it is not "worth the effort". I'm not prepared to second-guess that, as I don't have to do it.

    But I think psrs1 raises some valid points nonetheless. It should be obvious that if Mods lose their objectivity, in a particular exchange, or become belittling, incautious or heavy-handed, they can "chill" a discussion ... and engage in a debate with tools for shouting down, punishing, editing or silencing ordinary posters.

    Yes, Mods efforts, ordinarily, ought to be valued. And Mods are only human. Fine.

    Perhaps admitting that, from time to time, might be helpful, though ... The quality of the forum really is in their hands.

    Anyway, there's my two cents. So you're not alone psrs1.
    Last edited by Wild-ling#1; Tue Sep 22nd, 2015 at 08:21 AM.

  29. #18
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    CRF. I did wish to bring into the DD discussion the impact of where he is in his family life cycle will impact all sides moving forward re possible max contract next season. This is a specific example for you which you can review that I raised and wished to discuss in the Everything DD thread. I don't think it is fair for you to to say 'you don't have the right to accuse ...' To me the tone of that comment is condescending. You use the the word 'accuse' --I would suggest I was raising a legitimate concern with which you obviously do not agree . I hope you can consider how the tone of that comment can be perceived as such.

    psrs1
    You raised that point and several Mods (myself included) publically suggested you start a new thread to discuss it.

    In what world does multiple suggestions to enjoy your freedom of speech = censorship?

    You continue to beat a dead horse.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Sep 22nd, 2015 at 09:18 AM.

  30. #19
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    psr1 are you aware of how to start a thread?

    We mods are genuinely confused.

    If you don't know that you can start threads your posts make a lot more sense.
    For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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    "the system or practice of examining writings or movies and taking out things considered offensive or immoral"

    here

    I question as to how in the fuck that locking a thread that does nothing but allow for people to get stupid over the content of it as being defined as anything even close to "censorship"

    Has the thread and all of its entirety been deleted? No?

    Have all posts referencing Demar been deleted? no?

    Have there been no invites to start new discussion about Demar? No?

    Has Demar not been discussed in other threads and been immediately deleted? No?

    Has this thread calling into question the nature of the locking of the dd thread been immediately taken down? No?

    then get over it, it is a far cry from censorship.

    Im sorry but this is fucking stupid to even call that into question.

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