View Poll Results: Grade Valanciunas' Season

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    51 25.76%
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    106 53.54%
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    37 18.69%
  • D

    1 0.51%
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    3 1.52%
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Thread: Everything Valanciunas

  1. #10201
    Raptors Republic Superstar S.R.'s Avatar
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    I deleted a post, I don't know if it was in here, nothing pitting JV vs. DD that I can think of though, 4th quarter discussion doesn't even involve JV as he wasn't playing.

    Ball movement was great, which included Poeltl with nice kick-outs from the roll and Delon with great kick-outs off dribble penetration.

    9 AST on 12 FGM at some point, not sure if that was right at the end or just near the end.
    "Control DeRozan's catch-shoot game. He rarely passes. Defend the ball. Much of what they do reverses to 1 on 1 play." -- Visitor Locker Room Whiteboard, Air Canada Centre, Feb. 26, 2015

  2. #10202
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    As you can see you can hide those guys way easier. Example James Harden and IT.

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    Harden is worth of hiding - double digits in assists is daily business and he's one of the best scorers in the league.
    IT is clutch as hell.

    Your boy DD - points is the only thing he provides in current situation. And that isn't enough to match-up the outcome of non-existent defense and switching off the team-mates on offense.
    I suppose DD would be worth hiding too, like say Portland's guard duo, if not Casey. Combo of these two is too deadly...

  3. #10203
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Cross wrote: View Post
    Harden is worth of hiding - double digits in assists is daily business and he's one of the best scorers in the league.
    IT is clutch as hell.

    Your boy DD - points is the only thing he provides in current situation. And that isn't enough to match-up the outcome of non-existent defense and switching off the team-mates on offense.
    I suppose DD would be worth hiding too, like say Portland's guard duo, if not Casey. Combo of these two is too deadly...
    He is averaging 5 rebounds and 4 assist?

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  4. #10204
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    How about 36min per game on 35% usage taking into consideration?

    5&4 is fine for bakcup (plus 2.5 TO btw). Not so much for the one, who is supposed to be the main engine of the team.

  5. #10205
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    Quote Cross wrote: View Post
    How about 36min per game on 35% usage taking into consideration?

    5&4 is fine for bakcup (plus 2.5 TO btw). Not so much for the one, who is supposed to be the main engine of the team.
    There are 19 players in the NBA who average the 5 rebounds and 3.7 assists per game that DeMar is averaging, and none of them are backups except for Rajon Rondo, who yapped himself out of a starting spot.

    -------------

    I think guards are easier to hide on defense than a bad centre, who is supposed to be the anchor. That said, it can be done. Here are the best teams in terms of DRatg:

    1. Spurs - they've played Pau and David Lee over 1000 minutes each, though Aldridge probably sees his fair share of time at centre
    2. Warriors - Draymond plays his fair share of smallball centre, Pachulia
    3. Jazz - Gobert
    4. Grizzlies - Marc Gasol
    5. Hawks - Howard
    6. Heat - Whiteside
    7. Pistons - Drummond
    8. Hornets - Zeller. They've also floated Hibbert and Kaminsky at C at times (maybe Hawes too)
    9. Pelicans - mishmash of Asik, Ajinca, and Anthony Davis smallball
    10. Thunder - Adams
    11. Clippers - DeAndre
    12. Wizards - Gortat

    Notice how there's a mix of athletic guys like Whiteside/Drummond/DeAndre along with higher BBIQ guys like Marc Gasol and Draymond. And the two that stick out are the Spurs and Hornets. What are they doing so effectively to have such great defenses without the type of premiere big man defense the other teams sport?

    Obviously Kawhi and MKG are a huge help. But the system has to be making a difference.

    Charlotte has posted defensive ratings ranking fifth (103.8), ninth (103.5) and eighth (104.3) in the last three seasons under Clifford. They’ve accomplished that in seasons where their best perimeter defender missed most of the season, with Al Jefferson as their starting center (far from a rim protector), and with an assortment of starting power forwards and starting wings. The one constant is Clifford.
    Clifford’s defensive system is simple. It’s a conservative approach built on clogging the paint and forcing opponents to take contested jumpers.
    http://hoopshabit.com/2016/10/15/cha...e-even-better/

    There's got to be a better way to play to Jonas's abilities on D than what we're doing now. And maybe that's what we lost when we lost Andy Greer.

  6. #10206
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post

    There's got to be a better way to play to Jonas's abilities on D than what we're doing now. And maybe that's what we lost when we lost Andy Greer.
    there's no maybe as far as i'm concerned

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  8. #10207
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    Bruce Arthur reiterates some of what he discussed with Zach Lowe, namely that JV's time in Toronto may be coming to an end. 10:15 mark.

    http://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050...n-end-1.678289

    It may not happen at the deadline but barring a massive playoff run, I doubt we'll see Jonas next year. Which is really sad, because I think it will end up being one of our biggest blown opportunities.

  9. #10208
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    Wasn't Arthur the guy that said that Masai wasn't going to make a move.. yet a day or two later we ended up with Ibaka? I don't think he's connected. So it's just off the cuff talk. I don't mind if JV is traded.. just think his rebounding and post game is pretty critical to this team.. especially in the playoffs.

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  11. #10209
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Wasn't Arthur the guy that said that Masai wasn't going to make a move.. yet a day or two later we ended up with Ibaka? I don't think he's connected. So it's just off the cuff talk. I don't mind if JV is traded.. just think his rebounding and post game is pretty critical to this team.. especially in the playoffs.
    4 days. He didn't just say there wouldn't be a move. He explicitly said "Ibaka isn't coming."

    But more, the faith that such a move tilts the tables enough to pull the trigger has not coalesced. So with the trade deadline two weeks away, it’s becoming clear: Millsap isn’t coming. Ibaka isn’t coming. The big swing that some in the fan base are clamouring for isn’t happening. Right now, even a small tweak doesn’t seem to be on the table.
    I've said it before, I'll say it again. The local beat guys are always the last to know anything about the Raptors, because they have team sources, and Masai don't do leaks. The big NBA beat guys have league sources, as well as sources within many front offices, so when teams are approaching finalized deals, they find out, either through the league offices vetting the possible deal or whichever team has the leakier front office.

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  13. #10210
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    4 days. He didn't just say there wouldn't be a move. He explicitly said "Ibaka isn't coming."



    I've said it before, I'll say it again. The local beat guys are always the last to know anything about the Raptors, because they have team sources, and Masai don't do leaks. The big NBA beat guys have league sources, as well as sources within many front offices, so when teams are approaching finalized deals, they find out, either through the league offices vetting the possible deal or whichever team has the leakier front office.
    That may all be true, but in this instance, it all rings pretty close to what would be a logical progression of events. You wanna keep Patterson, Lowry and Ibaka, most likely you're parting with JV, Cojo, and if you can, Carroll.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  14. #10211
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    It's become somewhat obvious that JV is no longer a long term piece for the Raptors, so I think the question turns to when you can max out his trade value. If Masai is able to do it before the trade period, it probably happens. If a deal doesn't come across his desk that he likes then they move him during the summer.

  15. #10212
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    Still think it's a big leap from "Boogie/Drummond are available, let's talk about JV" to "we need to trade JV, the sooner the better." A big leap.

    Also, Detroit is still taking calls on Drummond.

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  17. #10213
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    That may all be true, but in this instance, it all rings pretty close to what would be a logical progression of events. You wanna keep Patterson, Lowry and Ibaka, most likely you're parting with JV, Cojo, and if you can, Carroll.
    Why again, when we finally have a viable PF rotation, are we abandoning the only functional starting quality C we've had since... what, Antonio Davis?

    The fanbase has targeted Ibaka or an Ibaka-like PF for years as an ideal fit next to JV. Why on earth would acquiring him lead anyone to conclude the Raptors want to move on from him? If you can upgrade from JV to a guy like Cousins, sure, why wouldn't you. But that doesn't mean the team is looking to get rid of him.

    Carroll might need to go because of the numbers crunch, and CoJo has taken a big step back and has two young guys on his heels, so he's probably moving on at some point. But dealing JV to save cash seems like creating a hole for no real reason.

  18. #10214
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Why again, when we finally have a viable PF rotation, are we abandoning the only functional starting quality C we've had since... what, Antonio Davis?

    The fanbase has targeted Ibaka or an Ibaka-like PF for years as an ideal fit next to JV. Why on earth would acquiring him lead anyone to conclude the Raptors want to move on from him? If you can upgrade from JV to a guy like Cousins, sure, why wouldn't you. But that doesn't mean the team is looking to get rid of him.

    Carroll might need to go because of the numbers crunch, and CoJo has taken a big step back and has two young guys on his heels, so he's probably moving on at some point. But dealing JV to save cash seems like creating a hole for no real reason.
    Seriously, the board goes from hypothesizing that if Cousins ever becomes available, most would agree to flip JV+ for him.

    Guess what? Masai offered JV+ when Cousins became available. And now the board takes this as some sort of evidence that JV is considered expendable.

  19. #10215
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Why again, when we finally have a viable PF rotation, are we abandoning the only functional starting quality C we've had since... what, Antonio Davis?

    The fanbase has targeted Ibaka or an Ibaka-like PF for years as an ideal fit next to JV. Why on earth would acquiring him lead anyone to conclude the Raptors want to move on from him? If you can upgrade from JV to a guy like Cousins, sure, why wouldn't you. But that doesn't mean the team is looking to get rid of him.

    Carroll might need to go because of the numbers crunch, and CoJo has taken a big step back and has two young guys on his heels, so he's probably moving on at some point. But dealing JV to save cash seems like creating a hole for no real reason.
    LOL people on here are crazy. Sometimes it seems like they just want to make trades just for the sake of it. But Dan I have a question for you. How do you think Ibaka and Jonas will fit together? Because Zach Lowe made a good point about Ibaka and Nikola not fitting well together and he and JV have very similar skill sets. Lowe doesn't think big slow offensive C's fit well alongside more mobile athletic PF's because it causes the better defender (the PF) to be stuck on the perimeter and negates their rim protection. What are your thoughts? Do you see Ibaka fitting nicely alongside JV? And why do you think it didn't work well with Nikola defensively but will with JV?
    I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

  20. #10216
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    Quote Mindlessness wrote: View Post
    Seriously, the board goes from hypothesizing that if Cousins ever becomes available, most would agree to flip JV+ for him.

    Guess what? Masai offered JV+ when Cousins became available. And now the board takes this as some sort of evidence that JV is considered expendable.
    This is hardly an idea that has been proposed just over the last couple weeks. We've been talking about this for over two years.

    It's just that now, for the first time, Jonas has been linked to trade talks, and the media is starting to lay the soft sell down for if and when it happens.

    Doesn't mean we have to make a move for the sake of making a move. I love JV and my first choice has been to fire Casey for a long time. But what I want to happen and what is happening, objectively, are two different things. Jonas is being benched in his fifth season, most recently for a rookie. He hasn't cracked 27 mpg in three seasons or 9.5 field goal attempts per game.

    And now we just brought in a guy who will play to every Casey smallball stereotype, which is going to marginalize JV even more.

    So if we can get trade value for him, we should go for it, which is what Masai seems to be doing. I disagree with Arthur when he says the return doesn't matter. It does. But it seems clear that JV is on the fringe of the core, and that he is no longer considered untouchable as he was before.

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  22. #10217
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Why again, when we finally have a viable PF rotation, are we abandoning the only functional starting quality C we've had since... what, Antonio Davis?

    The fanbase has targeted Ibaka or an Ibaka-like PF for years as an ideal fit next to JV. Why on earth would acquiring him lead anyone to conclude the Raptors want to move on from him? If you can upgrade from JV to a guy like Cousins, sure, why wouldn't you. But that doesn't mean the team is looking to get rid of him.

    Carroll might need to go because of the numbers crunch, and CoJo has taken a big step back and has two young guys on his heels, so he's probably moving on at some point. But dealing JV to save cash seems like creating a hole for no real reason.
    Well AD was a 4 in Indy that we used as a 4/5 here. ibaka might be as well.

    No one can be certain that A or B has to go before they've played one game. We know masai is gonna evaluate awhile and weigh all the options. JV is just one of those options. It seems masai is just following due diligence on all options. That's his job.
    Media is speculating on it so members are talking about it.

  23. #10218
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Why again, when we finally have a viable PF rotation, are we abandoning the only functional starting quality C we've had since... what, Antonio Davis?

    The fanbase has targeted Ibaka or an Ibaka-like PF for years as an ideal fit next to JV. Why on earth would acquiring him lead anyone to conclude the Raptors want to move on from him? If you can upgrade from JV to a guy like Cousins, sure, why wouldn't you. But that doesn't mean the team is looking to get rid of him.

    Carroll might need to go because of the numbers crunch, and CoJo has taken a big step back and has two young guys on his heels, so he's probably moving on at some point. But dealing JV to save cash seems like creating a hole for no real reason.
    In an ideal world you keep JV.

    However the CBA makes that extremely costly.

    So why is JV shipped?

    1) money
    2) style of play Casey and team wants is the anti-JV
    3) given style of play there are 2 Cs that can fill the role
    4) 5 years in and Casey still doesn't trust him
    5) still 2 years left on his deal after this one and his trade value will likely peak this summer.


    By the way, I'm a big JV fan but objectively analyzing the writing is in the wall.

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  25. #10219
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Why again, when we finally have a viable PF rotation, are we abandoning the only functional starting quality C we've had since... what, Antonio Davis?

    The fanbase has targeted Ibaka or an Ibaka-like PF for years as an ideal fit next to JV. Why on earth would acquiring him lead anyone to conclude the Raptors want to move on from him? If you can upgrade from JV to a guy like Cousins, sure, why wouldn't you. But that doesn't mean the team is looking to get rid of him.

    Carroll might need to go because of the numbers crunch, and CoJo has taken a big step back and has two young guys on his heels, so he's probably moving on at some point. But dealing JV to save cash seems like creating a hole for no real reason.
    It's not so much of a want to move on from JV... it's just my opinion that it's going to happen. Partially because if resigning Ibaka is in the cards then there will have to be salary cut and JV seems to be the most obvious choice (he's a much more valuable trade asset than Carroll who I'd think is close to untradeable at this point unless your stapling assets to him on the way out of the door) and partially because he's plateaued development wise and still doesn't have the trust of the team in year 5.

    I'm not trying to turn it into an indictment of JV - like another poster said, the writing is simply on the wall. And if a deal is imminent for Jonas than I want Masai to max out the return (even if that means moving him today).

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  27. #10220
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    It's not so much of a want to move on from JV... it's just my opinion that it's going to happen. Partially because if resigning Ibaka is in the cards then there will have to be salary cut and JV seems to be the most obvious choice (he's a much more valuable trade asset than Carroll who I'd think is close to untradeable at this point unless your stapling assets to him on the way out of the door) and partially because he's plateaued development wise and still doesn't have the trust of the team in year 5.

    I'm not trying to turn it into an indictment of JV - like another poster said, the writing is simply on the wall. And if a deal is imminent for Jonas than I want Masai to max out the return (even if that means moving him today).
    Here's the thing. If you are re-signing Ibaka, you are doing so to win, now. Moving JV and relying on BeBe/Poeltl, or forcing Ibaka to play out of position for basically all of his minutes, will hurt your chances of winning, substantially. It doesn't make any sense to move JV unless you are getting a quality C back - so, maybe you think Drummond fits better stylistically (I don't), and maybe you have a chance at Cousins, sure, but downgrading significantly at C is unlikely - but it's almost a certain outcome if you trade JV, as the return would more likely be a wing player or guard or significant downgrade in talent (as JV's play style is not en vogue right now, his trade value is certainly less than his value on the court).

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