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  • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    His one of the worse PnR defenders in the league this year. Someone posted a stat last month. When talking about Love's D
    I'd like to see some current stats. Some of JV's numbers have been up and down this year which is part of another discussion (has happened elsewhere) re: the problem with defensive stats.

    NBA.com's pick and roll defensive numbers from Synergy are rating Jose Calderon as the best player guarding the roll man this year (10 possessions +). That's a problem.

    I'll cherry pick this one because it makes me happy - Jonas is the best post defender at the centre position this season, in the 98th percentile overall, with offensive players shooting only 22% against him in post-ups on 65 possessions (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/pos...ort=Percentile).

    I think one of the problems with defensive numbers for individual players on specific plays is that you immediately start dealing with really small sample sizes.
    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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    • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
      His one of the worse PnR defenders in the league this year. Someone posted a stat last month. When talking about Love's D
      The numbers posted were defence on the roll man, which is usually not the roll man's defender's job in pick and roll coverage. At the time people pointed out that the numbers were pretty flawed (and speaking of small sample sizes he has about 1 PnR possession defended per game by that stat - less total possessions than that clutch sample you derided).
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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      • S.R. wrote: View Post
        I'd like to see some current stats. Some of JV's numbers have been up and down this year which is part of another discussion (has happened elsewhere) re: the problem with defensive stats.

        NBA.com's pick and roll defensive numbers from Synergy are rating Jose Calderon as the best player guarding the roll man this year (10 possessions +). That's a problem.

        I'll cherry pick this one because it makes me happy - Jonas is the best post defender at the centre position this season, in the 98th percentile overall, with offensive players shooting only 22% against him in post-ups on 65 possessions (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/pos...ort=Percentile).

        I think one of the problems with defensive numbers for individual players on specific plays is that you immediately start dealing with really small sample sizes.
        yes. According to that page, Horford has defended the most post-up plays in the league at 130. Still a small sample but the largest we have to go on. JV's 65 is half of that.

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        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
          Pretty small sample size. Still doesn't change that he struggles with those two things. Opposing teams know it as well.
          48 clutch minutes is a lot, actually, considering how many games he missed.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • DanH wrote: View Post
            The numbers posted were defence on the roll man, which is usually not the roll man's defender's job in pick and roll coverage. At the time people pointed out that the numbers were pretty flawed (and speaking of small sample sizes he has about 1 PnR possession defended per game by that stat - less total possessions than that clutch sample you derided).
            you and i both know that's not the reason he dismissed that particular stat though.

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            • DanH wrote: View Post
              The numbers posted were defence on the roll man, which is usually not the roll man's defender's job in pick and roll coverage. At the time people pointed out that the numbers were pretty flawed (and speaking of small sample sizes he has about 1 PnR possession defended per game by that stat - less total possessions than that clutch sample you derided).
              As bad as general defensive stats are, PnR might be one of the worst ones out there. No one player defends a pick and roll alone. Often it's done as a 5-man unit.

              Part of the reason the Lowry+Bench group defends so well is because every guy rotates when they need to. There was a single possession last night in the 4th where Marcus Morris was defended by CJ, Ross and 2Pat each in turn as screens rotated. Because each player was a capable defender, their teammates always trusted and rotated onto the next guy.

              With our starters they don't trust each other defensively, so every time a switch happens, at least one other player is hedging to potentially help. Every time someone puts themself in position to help before the help is required, it leaves an opponent open and causes a rotational problem.
              twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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              • DanH wrote: View Post
                One of the most frustrating things to see the Raptors' guards do is dig down on a JV-defended post up. It almost always leads to either the guard fouling the big or the big kicking it out the the guy the guard is supposed to be, you know, guarding, for an open three. Just let JV stop the guy dead.
                This is so annoying to me as well.

                Last night we gave up 3 open 3s to Marcus Morris because our guards were too close to the paint on a post up... by Andre freaking Drummond (!!), probably the least skilled player on the court...

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                • What are player shooting at the rim when JV is defending compared to BB? JV stuggle with that at beginning of the year. I want to see if his made improvement. Watching the games it seems like he has a bit.
                  @Chr1st1anL

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                  • I like JV a lot, but why are people just dismissing the roll man stats? It's clearly a problem. He gives up the 3rd most PPP on Pick & Rolls among players with at least 30 defensive possessions against the roll man. Scola is 4th.

                    Post defense is great though, 0.43 PPP against in the post on 65 post up possessions. Take the good with the bad and evaluate both, I feel like people never want to point out anything for JV to improve or work on, he's not a perfect player.

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                    • JWash wrote: View Post
                      I like JV a lot, but why are people just dismissing the roll man stats? It's clearly a problem. He gives up the 3rd most PPP on Pick & Rolls among players with at least 30 defensive possessions against the roll man. Scola is 4th.

                      Post defense is great though, 0.43 PPP against in the post on 65 post up possessions. Take the good with the bad and evaluate both, I feel like people never want to point out anything for JV to improve or work on, he's not a perfect player.
                      people dismiss PnR defence stats because it's really not an individual defensive play, it's a team defensive play. Much, much more so than a post-up defence play.

                      Defending a pick and roll is not done by the C alone.

                      Of course this doesn't mean he has nothing to improve on. We didn't say that.

                      To my eye, since JV returned from injury he has been quite improved in the PnR defensive system. Last night he was strikingly better in it than Biyombo.

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                      • KHD wrote: View Post
                        This is so annoying to me as well.

                        Last night we gave up 3 open 3s to Marcus Morris because our guards were too close to the paint on a post up... by Andre freaking Drummond (!!), probably the least skilled player on the court...
                        Drummond is one of the worst post players in the league (averages 0.73 PPP in the post, good for the 29th percentile) who was posting up on one of the best post defenders in the league in JV (averages 0.43 PPP given up in the post, good for 98th percentile), and our guards turned that into wide open threes.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • JWash wrote: View Post
                          I like JV a lot, but why are people just dismissing the roll man stats? It's clearly a problem. He gives up the 3rd most PPP on Pick & Rolls among players with at least 30 defensive possessions against the roll man. Scola is 4th.

                          Post defense is great though, 0.43 PPP against in the post on 65 post up possessions. Take the good with the bad and evaluate both, I feel like people never want to point out anything for JV to improve or work on, he's not a perfect player.
                          Thank you. I can honestly say your the most objective person on this forum.
                          @Chr1st1anL

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                          • KHD wrote: View Post
                            people dismiss PnR defence stats because it's really not an individual defensive play, it's a team defensive play. Much, much more so than a post-up defence play.

                            Defending a pick and roll is not done by the C alone.
                            It's no coincidence that Scola and JV have such similar defensive stats in that play - it is more about scheme and teammates than the player himself (although they are a factor for sure).
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • Individual defense is easier to measure on plays that are defended individually. Pick and Roll is not one of these plays.
                              twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                              • JWash wrote: View Post
                                I like JV a lot, but why are people just dismissing the roll man stats? It's clearly a problem. He gives up the 3rd most PPP on Pick & Rolls among players with at least 30 defensive possessions against the roll man. Scola is 4th.

                                Post defense is great though, 0.43 PPP against in the post on 65 post up possessions. Take the good with the bad and evaluate both, I feel like people never want to point out anything for JV to improve or work on, he's not a perfect player.
                                I think it was brought up at a time a bit back though that even BB measures below average on our team, and when all the bigs start to look bad, including the guy who's specifically supposed to be better at it, the problems are definitely team-related. We miss a lot of rotations on the roll man. I've seen more than a few times where BB does and he's visibly screaming or angry at the rest of the team for not having his back...in the past, I've seen JV get screamed at (by a player) for not being able to recover in the same type of situation. BB is in the right there though, the big should be the one who's pissed, not blamed.

                                So JV may not be good in the p'n'r, but most bigs aren't, and if all your bigs are measuring out poorly, there's clearly a deeper problem.

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