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  • #31
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Your 'if' question is very valid. However the flip side is what if the Raptors are stuck with a bad contract?

    Given the fact they have the right to match any contract offer, will have plenty of cap space, and have the amnesty clause at their disposal, I'd be willing to take the risk on waiting until after the season.... but that is just me.
    Actually I never thought about using the amnesty on Bayless. Is that possible? I guess he was under contract with the Raptors prior to July 1st. However would his new contract still qualify?

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    • #32
      planetmars wrote: View Post
      Actually I never thought about using the amnesty on Bayless. Is that possible? I guess he was under contract with the Raptors prior to July 1st. However would his new contract still qualify?
      No the new contract would not apply to amnesty. However if he was signed he could be waived using the stretch clause (number of years x2 plus 1 year divided by amount owed becomes new cap hit).

      I was thinking Bargnani, Calderon, Amir, or Kleiza - with Calderon being the most likely candidate.... especially after he injures himself next year in the Olympics (but hopefully not).

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      • #33
        planetmars wrote: View Post
        Actually I never thought about using the amnesty on Bayless. Is that possible? I guess he was under contract with the Raptors prior to July 1st. However would his new contract still qualify?
        It would be the stretch amnesty, not the regular one.
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        • #34
          Matt beat me to it.
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          • #35
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            No the new contract would not apply to amnesty. However if he was signed he could be waived using the stretch clause (number of years x2 plus 1 year divided by amount owed becomes new cap hit).

            I was thinking Bargnani, Calderon, Amir, or Kleiza - with Calderon being the most likely candidate.... especially after he injures himself next year in the Olympics (but hopefully not).
            I'm pretty sure Calderon will lose a body part after the Olympics

            However I think Calderon could make a very good trade chip next year. An expiring contract, veteran, and pass first PG? Those are excellent qualities for a contender. I think he is more valuable as a trade chip than as an amnesty. If we are to waive anyone I'd say Kleiza - especially if we pick a SF in the draft next year. But even then he could make a good trade chip once he becomes healthy. I'd consider the amnesty like a TPE. Good to have, but not required to move forward.

            Memphis could be a really good location for Calderon (the Gasol/Calderon connection alone would make sense). But they could use that calming presence as well to get them into the 2nd/3rd round of the play offs.

            Calderon+Bargnani for Gay!

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            • #36
              planetmars wrote: View Post
              I'm pretty sure Calderon will lose a body part after the Olympics

              However I think Calderon could make a very good trade chip next year. An expiring contract, veteran, and pass first PG? Those are excellent qualities for a contender. I think he is more valuable as a trade chip than as an amnesty. If we are to waive anyone I'd say Kleiza - especially if we pick a SF in the draft next year. But even then he could make a good trade chip once he becomes healthy. I'd consider the amnesty like a TPE. Good to have, but not required to move forward.

              Memphis could be a really good location for Calderon (the Gasol/Calderon connection alone would make sense). But they could use that calming presence as well to get them into the 2nd/3rd round of the play offs.

              Calderon+Bargnani for Gay!
              The problem with Calderon is he is paid $10.5M. This is a very old statement but true.

              I think Kleiza has value due to JV coming over. He will help him adjust in my opinion. Also, Kleiza can play some 4 if the Raptors were to go small (this assumes one or two of Bargnani, Amir, or ED are not here next year). Also, I think a healthy Kleiza is on a reasonable contract given his skills and he would be a good rotational player - the key being health of course.

              The MEM trade adds salary to their payroll. I am not sure any trade of Gay would be looking to do that - I could be wrong though. With Darrell Arthur reportedly tearing his Achilles tendon (and the Grizz thin up front after Gasol and Randolph anyways) they might be looking to add some bigs.

              For what it is worth, outside of including DD, ED, JV, and 2012 draft pick, I would trade Bargnani for Gay ANY day of the week.

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              • #37
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                Your 'if' question is very valid. However the flip side is what if the Raptors are stuck with a bad contract?
                But $12M over 3 years, or $16M over 4, isn't really a bad contract. Even if Bayless is coming off the bench for 25 minutes, as is widely predicted to be his future. Is it?

                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                Given the fact they have the right to match any contract offer
                Suppose this is a point that does escape me. However, Restricted Free Agents are generally offered fairly bloated contracts already. Will likely end up overpaying him in this situation as well.

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                • #38
                  joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                  But $12M over 3 years, or $16M over 4, isn't really a bad contract. Even if Bayless is coming off the bench for 25 minutes, as is widely predicted to be his future. Is it?
                  If Bayless ends up being a 5 mpg guy, which is also a possibility, then that contract is pretty bad.
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                  • #39
                    I vote on waiting until the season is over (or until the all-star game at least) before thinking about giving Bayless a raise/extension. The combo guard position in my opinion is an easy one to fill. Most teams have a guy like that or two already. If Bayless was the pass first type of guard then that's a different story. We don't want to create another Marcus Banks situation. His contract was pretty bad for a 3rd stringer, which is what Bayless' future could end up looking like.

                    I just don't think he's good enough yet to give a QO offer to.

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                    • #40
                      Bayless is not a combo. I think he's strictly a PG that happens to score a lot(Westbrook, Rose you get the point) he will most definitely improve his court vision over the course of this season and will probably crack the starting line up. Just wait and see boy's, Btw I was also one of the first people to talk about us drafting Kabongo.

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                      • #41
                        joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                        But $12M over 3 years, or $16M over 4, isn't really a bad contract. Even if Bayless is coming off the bench for 25 minutes, as is widely predicted to be his future. Is it?



                        Suppose this is a point that does escape me. However, Restricted Free Agents are generally offered fairly bloated contracts already. Will likely end up overpaying him in this situation as well.
                        This is only my opinion but I'm willing to risk it.

                        Regardless the deadline to extend rookie contracts is January 25. The Raps have a month to get a better idea of Bayless worth moving forward on a risk/reward basis.

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                        • #42
                          I would say 4 mill for 3 years. Even at his production level right now, 4 Mill does not seem too overpriced. If he gets better we get a better deal, if not it does not cost us that much cap space, and is only for three years if we can not trade him.

                          We can still draft Kabongo. I agree that pure PG`s are harder to come by, but also agree that Bayless is here now, and has potential.

                          Maybe start Kabongo and have Bayless has a 6th man, combination of JJ Barea and Barbossa?
                          Does not seem like a bad or unreasonable goal.
                          Last edited by Hello; Tue Dec 20, 2011, 12:14 AM. Reason: put $ instead of 4

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                          • #43
                            Hello wrote: View Post
                            Maybe start Kabongo and have Bayless has a 6th man, combination of JJ Barea and Barbossa?
                            Does not seem like a bad or unreasonable goal.
                            If Bayless ever got to be as good as Barbossa, it would be an incredible transformation. I would rather have Barbossa as backup PG right now, over Bayless.

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                            • #44
                              I think it would be a huge mistake to extend Bayless at this point. A huge mistake. Which means it'll probably happen.
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                              ebrian

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                              • #45
                                Puffer wrote: View Post
                                If Bayless ever got to be as good as Barbossa, it would be an incredible transformation. I would rather have Barbossa as backup PG right now, over Bayless.
                                Agreed. I don't see the light ever turning on with Bayless as a PG. He's had plenty of time to show the instincts needed to be an effective playmaker in the NBA, and he's shown the opposite. The numbers that people refer to from the end of last season are a mirage. Just watch him play. He's out of control, leaves his feet way too soon, and misses open men often. His offense is OK, but not even up to snuff for a starting SG.

                                At a QO of ~4M, I'd let him walk. Again, it's early and he's going to get lots of opportunity to change my mind this season, but from what I've seen so far, he's a borderline backup 2, with no business getting ANY minutes at the 1 on a competitive team.
                                Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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