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Time for the Raptors to look at Bayless in a different light?

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  • #16
    I would trade BOTH Barbosa and Bayless at the trade deadline this season.

    Barbosa is 30+ veteran on an expiring contract, who could give any playoff team a scoring punch off the bench - no brainer to me.

    Bayless is Barbosa-lite, playing as a PG. Although he could be a Barbosa-type player, I can't help but get the feeling from watching him, that he's not the type of person who would accept that role. He has a chip on his shoulder and a constant scowl that make me feel like he thinks he's better than everybody else and will only be happy being "the man". At the end of the day, there's no way I would extend the $4.16M qualifying offer after the season to keep him as a backup, whether it's as a PG, SG or some sort of hybrid.

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    • #17
      Fully wrote: View Post
      The big question for me isn't whether Bayless would be effective in that role off the bench but whether or not he'd be willing to accept it. He wore out his welcome in two places already with beefs about playing time so I have my doubts on whether or not he'd be willing to get on board with a plan that would have him coming off the bench for the next few seasons and then actually stick with it. Bayless is quite adamant that he wants to be a starter in the NBA and I'm not sure he would buy into it for very long, if at all.

      One thing I am sure of is however is that Bayless is not the future of the PG spot in Toronto. He is a valuable player, ideally in the role that Matt52 described, but if he's not willing to accept that role at 24 years old then I'd suggest letting him leave and be someone's elses headache. He seems like someone that David Kahn would be willing to sign for big money.
      Since he arrived in Toronto, Bayless hasn't given us any indication that he has a problem coming off the bench.

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      • #18
        As long as we don't have a better or equal option (scorer on 2nd unit) I wouldn't mind if we extend Barbosa (depending on his salary). I don't think Bayless is anywhere close to his level and I don't think he'll ever be (I might be wrong). Also, I don't share some people's opinion that Bayless is a good defender (his statistics, synergy I believe, were really bad; can't find the article unfortunately). It's not just that, but if Amir will be coming of the bench I'd also like him to be paired with a point guard who can make him an effective offensive weapon. If Bayless stays as a 8-10th guy I would like to see us pay him less than 2 mil. a year.

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        • #19
          I'd just like to see him get steady minutes to gauge what he can or can't become. Some things are obvious in that he can certainly score the ball but he needs time to develop other aspects of him game. At this point it's obvious the Raptors are on the outside looking in of the playoffs so why not let players who could be in the long term picture have some extended burn? This season hasn't been nearly enough to see his worth lets hope when he comes back he has finally shaken those ankle issues.

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          • #20
            jimmie wrote: View Post
            I don't think the Raptors need to spend $4M on a bench scoring SG just because they currently have Barbosa and he's not likely to be here next year (ie. Barbosa's is not a role you necessarily need to fill). I wouldn't pay $4M to keep Bayless here, no way. He's too small to defend the 2 (and isn't much of a defender anyway), he certainly can't run the point, and if he's going to do anything positive on the floor, he has to dominate the ball. Yep, that sounds like Barbosa. But I don't think that's the kind of 6th man this team should be looking for.

            Sorry, Jerryd, I like you, but: Do not want as a key piece.

            If he goes out on the market and doesn't get any bites, sure, bring him back at 2.5M a year for 2 years. He can come off the bench as the 8th/9th man.
            Ditto, and to expand a little on that: If we're talking about moving forward long term, you want more distribution of scoring from the second unit than 1 undersized ball dominating SG that isn't even very good at that. That's all he has been on 3 teams in his 3rd year. A guy like that is only good for an end of bench, short minute guy when you're second unit is stalling and needs an injection: a bit player. This year is about development and evaluation and maybe the coaching staff can turn him around, but 3 previous coaching staffs haven't changed his game one bit.

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            • #21
              I've always thought that role would be best for him...I feel PG vision isn't something he has, he just doesn't see the floor like Jose does. As for if he is worth 4M next year, I would say yeah because Barbosa will likely be gone and the Raptors will likely have a new PG (draft of FA). So a sixth man type role could be his (and he would be able to play more PG than Barbosa). He needs to play on a wing, in open floor where he can use his speed and handle

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              • #22
                Isn't this basically what he was back in the Portland days? I seem to remember having these memories of him and Roy playing together and bringing Bayless off the bench for a nice scoring punch.
                Eh follow my TWITTER!

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                • #23
                  Fully wrote: View Post
                  The big question for me isn't whether Bayless would be effective in that role off the bench but whether or not he'd be willing to accept it. He wore out his welcome in two places already with beefs about playing time so I have my doubts on whether or not he'd be willing to get on board with a plan that would have him coming off the bench for the next few seasons and then actually stick with it. Bayless is quite adamant that he wants to be a starter in the NBA and I'm not sure he would buy into it for very long, if at all.

                  One thing I am sure of is however is that Bayless is not the future of the PG spot in Toronto. He is a valuable player, ideally in the role that Matt52 described, but if he's not willing to accept that role at 24 years old then I'd suggest letting him leave and be someone's elses headache. He seems like someone that David Kahn would be willing to sign for big money.
                  In his pre-season interview he seemed more passive and sounded like he wanted to play behind Jose and come off the bench as a scorer. Could be just me though.

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                  • #24
                    Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    Wow... this is the first time I had read Barbo's wingspan was 6'10". That is incredible.
                    it was highlighted when he made that circus shot against the bulls the other day (falling to the floor, reaching around the defender and flippling the ball in...he looked like Stretch Armstrong)

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                    • #25
                      Jclaw wrote: View Post
                      it was highlighted when he made that circus shot against the bulls the other day (falling to the floor, reaching around the defender and flippling the ball in...he looked like Stretch Armstrong)
                      I saw the game but I don't recall that. I often fast forward through foul shots or dead ball situations.

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                      • #26
                        p00ka wrote: View Post
                        Ditto, and to expand a little on that: If we're talking about moving forward long term, you want more distribution of scoring from the second unit than 1 undersized ball dominating SG that isn't even very good at that. That's all he has been on 3 teams in his 3rd year. A guy like that is only good for an end of bench, short minute guy when you're second unit is stalling and needs an injection: a bit player. This year is about development and evaluation and maybe the coaching staff can turn him around, but 3 previous coaching staffs haven't changed his game one bit.

                        give us some names of who you can fill the sixth man role for 4 million. 4 million qualifying offer is 3 for 12 or a 4 for 15/16 million deal which is not a bad deal for bayless in my opinion. like weems all we need to do is drop the qualifying offer down and then wait to see if someone beats it. if they do we move on but if they don't we have our sixth man. just because bayless doesn't fit the point guard position doesn't mean that he doesn't have a place on the team. we have the pieces and if you are only filling out a team by a step by step process instead of plugging any and every hole when that piece comes you could be building forever.

                        bayless is a good player who seems to have been tunnel visioned or pigeon holed into only being a point guard because that is what we need/want him to be. but if he isn't a point guard we still have a good player who is something else. finding what he is instead of dropping him and starting over is the better approach.


                        ***sorry i thought i could quote you and jimmy at the same time. reply was for both.

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                        • #27
                          Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                          give us some names of who you can fill the sixth man role for 4 million. 4 million qualifying offer is 3 for 12 or a 4 for 15/16 million deal which is not a bad deal for bayless in my opinion. like weems all we need to do is drop the qualifying offer down and then wait to see if someone beats it. if they do we move on but if they don't we have our sixth man. just because bayless doesn't fit the point guard position doesn't mean that he doesn't have a place on the team. we have the pieces and if you are only filling out a team by a step by step process instead of plugging any and every hole when that piece comes you could be building forever.

                          bayless is a good player who seems to have been tunnel visioned or pigeon holed into only being a point guard because that is what we need/want him to be. but if he isn't a point guard we still have a good player who is something else. finding what he is instead of dropping him and starting over is the better approach.


                          ***sorry i thought i could quote you and jimmy at the same time. reply was for both.
                          You can, click the multi-quote button (to the right of the reply with quote button) on the comments you wish to reply to.

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                          • #28
                            Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                            give us some names of who you can fill the sixth man role for 4 million. 4 million qualifying offer is 3 for 12 or a 4 for 15/16 million deal which is not a bad deal for bayless in my opinion.
                            How about I give you some names of guys making a lot less than $4M and would be better options? This isn't to say we should or could get one of these guys, just that there are better options for 6th, 7th man than Jerryd Bayless, and you don't have to pay through the nose for those kinds of players. CJ Watson, Keyon Dooling, Michael Pietrus, Rudy Fernandez, Nate Robinson, Dorell Wright, Goran Dragic, Courtney Lee, George Hill, James Jones, Deshawn Stevenson, Landry Fields -- and even TJ Ford...

                            You don't reward a guy just for surviving his first few years in the league with a $4M deal. If you exist in the kind of "tweener" basketball netherworld that Bayless does, you need to be really, really good at one thing, which Bayless isn't. Not to mention, if you're only really, really good at one thing, you're probably not 6th-man material on a competing playoff team anyway.

                            Look, he still has the rest of the year to prove that the first few years were learning-curve years and that he's worth keeping around, then you can talk salary. Right now, he needs to prove he has a future here at all, let alone as a $4M a year 6th man. I want him to succeed, because I want the Raptors to succeed, but I don't see it for him at the moment.
                            Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                            • #29
                              i don't think its a reward to qualify him. just protecting assets. i am also hoping he does great this year and really grows. but i think he is a very good penetrator, and a very good scorer. not to diminish your list but there are only two players from it i would want on the raptors right now. george hill and landry fields. hill will be making much more than 4 million once his rookie deal is up.

                              if you don't qualify bayless you risk losing him for nothing. if you trade him and the trade isn't an immediate upgrade you put the franchise back slightly. in a perfect and completely illegal world colangelo and bayless agree to let him walk and sign for less but i think its against cba (ass talking there, just sounds illegal). if he were allowed to go see whats out there for himself and give us first chance to match best offer that would great.

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                              • #30
                                Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                                ...if you trade him and the trade isn't an immediate upgrade you put the franchise back slightly.
                                Who could any even slightly cognizant GM trade Bayless for that wouldn't be an immediate upgrade? (Please prove me wrong when you come back Bayless)

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