Barbosa'a trade value?

[Mediumcore]

I'm not sure where I heard it, but I beleive and ESPN analyst was talking about Phoenix moving Steve Nash for a draft pick and he estimated Nash being worth a pick between the 7th & 10th. Using that as a measurement I would say Barbosa would get you a pick in the early to mid 20's at best.

I'd say it's not worth it. This draft class is getting a tonne of hype but as with all drafts the impact players go in the top 5 to 10 with the occasional break out player going later. IMO we should let the $$ come off the books and use it to sign a free agent. There are a few interesting Centre's that could acquired for cheap in this years free agency class which could be useful to to the Raptors in need of a mentor for JV.

[mcHAPPY]

Barbosa is an expiring contract, so while he'll be a good rental for a playoff run by a team with a chance to go all the way, I don't think he'll net much in return for the Raptors. That's not to say I wouldn't do a deal, but you have to be careful that you're not taking something back that's not going to be as useful in the longer term as having the $7.5M this summer.

If it is not a draft pick or a draft pick coupled with an expiring contract, I wouldn't bother for the very reasons you mention.

Barbosa has no trade value after the trade deadline. If Toronto can get an asset before the trade deadline that will have value after (draft pick) that would be good for the Raptors long term. If you really want him, and he really wants to be here, then they can resign him in July.

Another thing to keep in mind is the Cleveland-Baron Davis situation last year. It was a fluke they got #1 with the Clippers pick but it worked out very well for them. I think the Clippers were 'suppose' to pick 8 - 8 this year would be a nice selection.

[ebrian]

Hmm.. I guess you're right although I didn't say top draft pick. I'd be interested in seeing, actually, the number of trades that have been made in past few years for players like Barbosa.

[saints91]

I would have to agree with letting Barbosa come off the books. Most likely we will have to take back a player worth the same amount, due to cap restrictions. Unless we get an expiring contract coming back it's not worth it. I like our cap flexibility for the 2012 free agent group. The Lakers would be a good trade partner because they have a TPE from Dallas.


Dream Scenario:

So, with the Lakers we might be able to swing a trade for either their pick or the one they received from Dallas. Which ever is worse. We would also get a TPE for next year. With this option we still get to keep our cap room and pick up a player via trade to better our team next year.


Alternative Scenario:

We could end up trading a 2013 or 2014 first rounder for a 15-25 pick this year. By that time we should be a better team and we would be drafting in that area anyways. We could get this "build" going a bit quicker. Three rookies coming in might be a bit much though.

This could be our team next year and in the future :


JV
Bargs
Barnes/Miller/MKG
DeMar
Kabango/Marshall/Teague

Bench:

Amir
Ed Davis
Calderon
J.J.
Kleiza
Veteran SG with 3Pt. shooting
Weems
back up Centre


Starters could be switched.

[WJF]

Why would J'covan Brown leave Texas after this season? He's the best player on the current team, he's not very high on anybody's NBA radar, a group of highly touted bigs are coming to the U of T program next season, and he is having his best season season by far production wise.

Did I say he would or should leave? The only thing I said is that it would be good for Myck if he left, an undersized shooting guard who dominates the ball is not the best thing to have when you are trying to develop as a lead guard.

[p00ka]

I was replying to Nilanka's post about Kabongo. A GM picking 26th usually has a very good team. If he has no depth or a need at SG, then I don't see him looking to keep a late first round draft pick. The window of opportunity in pro sports is not always open. Most late first round draft picks are not going to amount to much - of course there are always exceptions which we can all rattle off.

Is it possible that there could be such a pick available? Sure, but it will likely require an unusual set of circumstances on one of those top tier teams. Let's face it, most of the top tier teams are pretty well set with their roster and not carrying expiring contract scrubs they don't need (but need what LB offers), with a salary to make a trade even possible. That's a lot of IFs to come together on one of a short list of teams. A bit of luck that could create incentive would be an injury to a player that currently provides what LB could replace. It would still need either a matching expiring contract, or a willingness to sacrifice a player with matching ($7M?) longer term salary, that Raps think is a valuable piece to acquire. It's possible but it may require several stars to align to make it happen.

[WJF]

I guess the big question is: What is more valuable, 7.6 mil off the books and no second 1st round pick, or taking back 7 mil for an extra year or two and getting a late 1st rounder in 2012?

[mcHAPPY]

Is it possible that there could be such a pick available? Sure, but it will likely require an unusual set of circumstances on one of those top tier teams. Let's face it, most of the top tier teams are pretty well set with their roster and not carrying expiring contract scrubs they don't need (but need what LB offers), with a salary to make a trade even possible. That's a lot of IFs to come together on one of a short list of teams. A bit of luck that could create incentive would be an injury to a player that currently provides what LB could replace. It would still need either a matching expiring contract, or a willingness to sacrifice a player with matching ($7M?) longer term salary, that Raps think is a valuable piece to acquire. It's possible but it may require several stars to align to make it happen.

There are three teams who have the ability to take on Barbosa without sending any significant salary back and have pieces the Raptors might find attractive:

1) LAL - Odom trade exemption, 2 (likely) late first round draft picks, Darius Morris
2) IND - Cap space to take Barbo outright and (likely) late first round pick
3) DEN - Anthony trade exemption, first round pick

There could be more that I am not seeing.

*this doesn't mean any of the above teams would have any interest in Barbosa, I'm just speculating*

[p00ka]

There are three teams who have the ability to take on Barbosa without sending any significant salary back and have pieces the Raptors might find attractive:

1) LAL - Odom trade exemption, 2 (likely) late first round draft picks, Darius Morris
2) IND - Cap space to take Barbo outright and (likely) late first round pick
3) DEN - Anthony trade exemption, first round pick

There could be more that I am not seeing.

*this doesn't mean any of the above teams would have any interest in Barbosa, I'm just speculating*

Ya got me with TPEs. In very limited time spent trying to grasp a complicated mess of different flavours of TPEs and the rules of their use, I've walked away pretty much feeling someone would have to pay me to put in the time to fully understand it all.

[thead]

There are three teams who have the ability to take on Barbosa without sending any significant salary back and have pieces the Raptors might find attractive:

1) LAL - Odom trade exemption, 2 (likely) late first round draft picks, Darius Morris
2) IND - Cap space to take Barbo outright and (likely) late first round pick
3) DEN - Anthony trade exemption, first round pick

There could be more that I am not seeing.

*this doesn't mean any of the above teams would have any interest in Barbosa, I'm just speculating*

Although you are speculating, Denver makes a lot of sense. They are playing great thus far, and with JR Smith in China they don't have that chucker off the bench anymore....they would likely pick 18 - 24.....If I may speculate as well ..

[mcHAPPY]

Although you are speculating, Denver makes a lot of sense. They are playing great thus far, and with JR Smith in China they don't have that chucker off the bench anymore....they would likely pick 18 - 24.....If I may speculate as well ..

The more speculation the better.... speculate away. It will be interesting to see what happens when JR Smith is available. Moreso for Wilson Chandler.

Continuing with the speculation:

I think JR is done in Denver.

I think Wilson Chandler will re-sign.

[SuperRaptor]

If the Bulls could get a late first rounder for James Johnson, then I see no reason why we can't get a late first rounder for Leandro Barbosa. I think there will be teams in March who are either on the cusp of playoffs or teams that are contenders who suffer an inconvenient injury that will look to crappy teams such as ours looking for some help.

Well said. I would be happy to get a late first rounder for barbosa.

[p00ka]

There are three teams who have the ability to take on Barbosa without sending any significant salary back and have pieces the Raptors might find attractive:

1) LAL - Odom trade exemption, 2 (likely) late first round draft picks, Darius Morris
2) IND - Cap space to take Barbo outright and (likely) late first round pick
3) DEN - Anthony trade exemption, first round pick

There could be more that I am not seeing.

*this doesn't mean any of the above teams would have any interest in Barbosa, I'm just speculating*

Hey Matt,
I understand you're just speculating, but though I have precious little knowledge of how TPEs work, I found the 3 possibilities you raised interesting. I finally found the time to have a look at those three teams in light of my original post about needing stars aligning (injury for example?), blah, blah.

Keep in mind that when the playoffs roll around the bench gets shortened. Just saying. And also keep in mind that LB is good for nothing more than a high energy, often black hole, SG off the bench. Both teams he's played for have tried him for small doses at PG, at it really doesn't work for more than a possession or two.

IND- If there's one position the Pacers are strong/deep in, besides 6'9" role players, it's SGs. As long as George and Hill are healthy, I would think it highly unlikely that they want to give up anything to rent LB. In the meantime, they have Jones and the Stephenson kid working with the team all year. If there's anywhere they may be looking to shore up it would be SF, or C.
Just my impression, not having followed the team very much. Is cap space enough to trade a player straight up? I thought you need close to matching salaries (plus TPE) to do a trade.
DEN- As long as they have Afflalo starting and Fernandez (taller, better version of LB) to come off the bench, they've no need for LB
LAL- I guess the most likely of the 3. I don't know what they think of this Morris kid (the only SG backup they have, so maybe he's the injured star that aligns), but as long as they have Kobe going into the playoffs, I would think that LBs game is useless to them when Kobe's playing the 3 spot, and I have doubts that they feel they need LB, with his game, when Kobe is sitting for his brief spells during playoffs. I could be wrong. the other thing on the lakers minds may be that they're getting old, and sooner or later better start getting younger. trading Morris and/or draft picks in this draft may not be in their interests unless dire need for LB.

All-in-all, as I said, I don't see there aren many scenarios out there that someone would want LB rental for the playoffs, and what they want to offer outweighs the $ flex that he gives the Raps. Nice dream to get a 1st round pick in a deep draft, but that's all it may be, imo.

[p00ka]

If the Bulls could get a late first rounder for James Johnson, then I see no reason why we can't get a late first rounder for Leandro Barbosa. I think there will be teams in March who are either on the cusp of playoffs or teams that are contenders who suffer an inconvenient injury that will look to crappy teams such as ours looking for some help.

There's a big difference between a late 1st rounder in a very shallow draft and one in a very deep draft. There's also a big difference between getting a young prospect with skills found lacking on your team and you think you can groom into a long term asset, and an older, well defined limited dimension rental that most teams don't have a need for.

[Maleko]

IND- If there's one position the Pacers are strong/deep in, besides 6'9" role players, it's SGs. As long as George and Hill are healthy, I would think it highly unlikely that they want to give up anything to rent LB. In the meantime, they have Jones and the Stephenson kid working with the team all year. If there's anywhere they may be looking to shore up it would be SF, or C.
Just my impression, not having followed the team very much. Is cap space enough to trade a player straight up? I thought you need close to matching salaries (plus TPE) to do a trade.DEN- As long as they have Afflalo starting and Fernandez (taller, better version of LB) to come off the bench, they've no need for LB

All-in-all, as I said, I don't see there aren many scenarios out there that someone would want LB rental for the playoffs, and what they want to offer outweighs the $ flex that he gives the Raps. Nice dream to get a 1st round pick in a deep draft, but that's all it may be, imo.

No, cap space is sufficient. As a note and perhaps I am misinterpreting your point about TPE, you cannot combine the TPE with a player, it must be of sufficient size to equal the player being dealt for.

LAL- I guess the most likely of the 3. I don't know what they think of this Morris kid (the only SG backup they have, so maybe he's the injured star that aligns), but as long as they have Kobe going into the playoffs, I would think that LBs game is useless to them when Kobe's playing the 3 spot, and I have doubts that they feel they need LB, with his game, when Kobe is sitting for his brief spells during playoffs. I could be wrong. the other thing on the lakers minds may be that they're getting old, and sooner or later better start getting younger. trading Morris and/or draft picks in this draft may not be in their interests unless dire need for LB.

First of all, Morris is NOT a SG he is a PG, and they do like him, as would we. We would be lucky to steal him. I highly doubt we could get both Morris and a 1st rounder, but if we could it's a no-brainer for the Raptors. As I said earlier in the thread, I expect a non-starter of a trade from the Lakers perspective.
The Lakers have Andrew Goudelock as a rookie backup SG (who Mike Brown is very high on), and Jason Kapono.

Barbosa would be a solid spark off the bench in spells for them, and it's not like he will be significantly different than Kobe in terms of ball-hogging/black hole, but could help the bench strength of the team. I do however agree with another poster though that the Lakers are more likely to begin holding onto 1st round picks than before considering the new CBA moving forward.

(Also - Kobe rarely plays the 3, Matt Barnes, Luke Walton and Metta World Peace man that slot)

EDIT: bang-on (IMO) point about age though, I would think they have to be considering age as they move ahead.