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  • Apollo wrote: View Post
    Right. You do. What about everyone else? We've seen this before many, many times. Looking into my crystal basketball I foresee dozens of Raptors fans looking at Gay's impact, looking at his salary and there by finding distaste in his game because the game doesn't match the salary. Salary is always a hot topic in here, like it or not. Salary changes perceptions of players, both good and bad.

    I mean one of the biggest ideas hammered home daily is: "let's get rid of such and such because we don't like the Raptors paying him." Or "I don't like such and such because he makes $10M. If he made $5M then I would have no problem with him."

    When a guy is making 30% of the cap number there are high expectations. I don't believe Gay can meet the expectations that most Raptors fans will expect at that price tag... And in general we're not a loyal bunch when times are tough.



    Matt, at $18M/yr he's not far off. You don't think $6M/yr over what you deem market value is excessive?



    Right and the average of the three seasons after this one is $18M/yr(31% of the cap if it's at $58M). The Raptors aren't going to be paying him for 2011/12.
    Apollo, it is three seasons. He's going to help everything on and off the court about the team. He's going to be the best all around player on the team.

    But, the best thing I can think of is that we aren't going through another Bosh era as long as Bryan is here. Also, Gay just seems smarter than Bosh. As well he has better work ethic than the current best player on team.

    A splash needs to be made here and I will guarantee that the 8th pick will not make one big enough. Look at all the guys we are waiting on now.

    Derozan and Johnson are heading into year four. Amir is heading into year 7. You seriously want to add another to the mix.

    Gay is a proven starter, we have 2 of those and we need at least 4. Gay or Iguodala for that matter are #3 if acquired.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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    • LBF wrote: View Post
      Apollo, it is three seasons. He's going to help everything on and off the court about the team. He's going to be the best all around player on the team.

      But, the best thing I can think of is that we aren't going through another Bosh era as long as Bryan is here. Also, Gay just seems smarter than Bosh. As well he has better work ethic than the current best player on team.

      A splash needs to be made here and I will guarantee that the 8th pick will not make one big enough. Look at all the guys we are waiting on now.

      Derozan and Johnson are heading into year four. Amir is heading into year 7. You seriously want to add another to the mix.

      Gay is a proven starter, we have 2 of those and we need at least 4. Gay or Iguodala for that matter are #3 if acquired.
      Rudy Gay was once a fourth year player. He was also selected 8th overall in a draft.

      If all this is merely about getting an impact wing for three years then wouldn't Iggy be more bang for your buck?(well, two years in this case) You wouldn't need to cough up a lotto pick and he would also be great next to Nash.

      Has it gotten so bad that the Raptors need to burn $18M/yr and a mid lotto pick for a "proven starter"?

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      • I would assume that the 8th pick would be in play for Iggy as well.

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        • I would not assume that. Iggy is not a real core piece going forward for them. Everyone knows it. His role has diminished year after year. In a time where cap space means a lot more than in the past, you'd be surprised what it takes to land Iggy in my opinion. Right now the 76ers are around $9M below cap. With Iggy out of the way they could be huge players in free agency.

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          • According to the tv via espn it is and I'm fine with Iggy. Gay might be easier to get and might be a little better. But, hey buddy if you are thinking Iguodala count me in.
            If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

            Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

            Comment


            • I'm thinking they shouldn't blow two major assets on a guy who isn't a superstar and so Iggy is more practical if Colangelo must accelerate the process to save his ass.

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              • Apollo wrote: View Post
                Has it gotten so bad that the Raptors need to burn $18M/yr and a mid lotto pick for a "proven starter"?
                It's the price you have to pay when you don't develop your own....

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                • This instant gratification leads to nothing good. It's essentially been the Raptors' formula for all of it's existence. Whenever they've deviated they've fallen back into it again and again, only to make mistakes, get cap strapped and fall down from "not respected" to "laughing stock" on the totem pole.

                  And if I was going to pry anyone away from the Sixers I'd be most interested in Evan Turner because I believe he has great skills and has been misused. He would offer a lot of versatility on the wing. Not sure what it would take to get him so again, all this within reason.

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                  • Apollo wrote: View Post
                    I'm thinking they shouldn't blow two major assets on a guy who isn't a superstar and so Iggy is more practical if Colangelo must accelerate the process to save his ass.
                    I guess I just don't understand how trading depth players and a mid-lottery pick is not still in-line with a "building" process. Gay will be 26 next season. IMO, he is younger, better, has more potential and is signed longer (into his prime years) than Iguodala, so there's no comparison there for me. In a year where there appear to be several options already available to potentially move right back into the mid/late-lottery, I almost think it's a no-brainer, especially given the fact that they have about $12M in cap space available (Davis & JJ for Gay would eat $11 of the $12M).

                    If the Raps did, for instance, decide to pull the trigger with NO (TPE for Ariza & #10), they could go into next season adding Valanciunas, #10 pick, Gay (26 yrs), Ariza (27 yrs) and #25 pick (if Memphis includes it in the deal)... all for the cost of Davis (3rd string PF), JJ (replaced by Gay) and dropping down 2 spots in the draft. That doesn't exactly scream out desperation or swinging for the fences or abandoning the building process, IMO.

                    LINEUP (Age next season)
                    C: Valanciunas (20)
                    PF: Bargnani (27), Amir (25)
                    SF: Gay (26), Ariza (27), Kleiza (27/28)
                    SG: DeRozan (23), Forbes (27/28)
                    PG: Calderon (31)

                    + rookie PG/SG drafted @ #10
                    + rookie PG/SG drafted @ #25 (if they get the pick from Memphis)
                    + veteran backup C, ie: Gray (27/28)
                    + Uzoh as 3rd string PG (24)
                    + MLE is still available, if needed
                    + #37 and #56 picks, either to draft or use as assets


                    I think that sounds like a pretty solid lineup. With only 3 players older than 27 (two turn 28 midway through and the only starter is an expiring contract), it's a lineup that screams "strong building process with roster that oozes potential" to me.

                    The team would be about $7-10M over the cap (depending on how many 1st round picks are drafted), with Calderon's $10M expiring and Ariza's $7M potentially leaving after just one season too (player option). They would still have the full MLE available. I don't really see how Gay's big contract would even be having any type of detrimental impact on the roster/franchise, despite the fact that he's probably a few million dollars overpaid (but he could improve and the Raps would likely have to overpay any free agent).
                    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Jun 7, 2012, 02:35 PM.

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                    • I never said they should trade for Iggy. I said Iggy made more sense than Gay in regards to another poster's comments. Of course Gay is better than Iggy. Neither should be pursued and nor would they if Colangelo weren't on a contract year... That's my opinion. There are lots of potentially good prospects at #8 and that cap space could be used on an impact vet.

                      Yeah Gay is only 26. The Raptors probably won't be ready to contend for five years if everything goes well with JV. In five years that 19 or 20 year old that they would take now would be entering a phase that Gay is already in now. Colangelo has a great draft track record. I trust him to make the right pick. I do not trust him to make the right trade with that pick.
                      Last edited by Apollo; Thu Jun 7, 2012, 02:36 PM. Reason: typo

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                      • Apollo wrote: View Post
                        I never said they should trade for Iggy. I said Iggy made more sense than Gay in regards to another poster's comments. Of course Gay is better than Iggy. Neither should be pursued and nor would they if Colangelo weren't on a contract year... That's my opinion. There are lots of potentially good prospects at #8 and that cap space could be used on an impact vet.

                        Yeah Gay is only 26. The Raptors probably won't be ready to contend for five years if everything goes well with JV. In five years that 19 or 20 year old that they would take now would be entering a phase that Gay is already in now. Colangelo has a great draft track record. I trust him to make the right pick. I do not trust him to make the right trade with that pick.
                        I get where you're coming from, relative to JV's age. However, in this case, I think a high impact trade can be made for relatively little (especially with what subsequent moves could do), which could take this team from hopefully competing for #8 to middle-of-the-pack playoff team in the East. I guess I just think BC can achieve the short-medium term improvements by making this type of trade for Gay, without mortgaging the long-term organic growth of the team (either by giving away all draft picks or completely clogging up cap space with bad deals).

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                        • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                          LINEUP (Age next season)
                          C: Valanciunas (20)
                          PF: Bargnani (27), Amir (25)
                          SF: Gay (26), Ariza (27), Kleiza (27/28)
                          SG: DeRozan (23), Forbes (27/28)
                          PG: Calderon (31)
                          The core of that lineup won 22 and 23 games the last two years. Let's say that Gay adds 6 wins and the rookie centre who has never played in an NBA game gets you 5 (hugely generous). Congratulations, you've got yourself a ~35-win team with no cap room. Substitute Nash for Calderon and you've got yourself a ~40-45 win team. Maybe. 2006, here we come! Back to the Future!

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                          • slaw wrote: View Post
                            The core of that lineup won 22 and 23 games the last two years. Let's say that Gay adds 6 wins and the rookie centre who has never played in an NBA game gets you 5 (hugely generous). Congratulations, you've got yourself a ~35-win team with no cap room. Substitute Nash for Calderon and you've got yourself a ~40-45 win team. Maybe. 2006, here we come! Back to the Future!
                            I'm sorry, but with a much improved starting lineup that will (hopefully) be healthy all season, that is a much better team than last season. And I'm not just worried about next season, I'm thinking into the future as these young players develop together.

                            And how can you compare cores? 2/5 of the starting lineup is new and Bargnani missed over half the season due to injury! lol

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                            • one thing i wouldn't want to become is the second coming of the atlanta hawks, with their eerily similar joe johnson signing.
                              @sweatpantsjer

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                              • well, you get what im saying
                                @sweatpantsjer

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