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Everything Trade Deadline: Lesson learned today? Don't trust Casey (462)

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  • Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I guess my value of Calderon is derived from the assumption that he's playing above his capabilities right now.

    Also, it's been noted many times that Colangelo wants to "hit the ground running" next season (who knows if that's still true or not). But if true, doing so is made a lot easier without $10 million tied up by a non-core player.
    Personally I think Calderon is playing to his abilities when healthy.


    I don't doubt his ability. I doubt his body.

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    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
      Personally I think Calderon is playing to his abilities when healthy.


      I don't doubt his ability. I doubt his body.
      That's basically what I meant. That we shouldn't be relying on Calderon's current level of production to last.

      Comment


      • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
        Calderon starting at PG is much more "hitting the ground running" than having Bayless or some rookie running the team... Bayless would be more along the lines of "running the team INTO the ground". That's the conundrum. Without a legit PG, the team is sunk from the start.
        I think we can all agree that there's no place for Bayless to be running to point....none whatsoever.

        As for Colangelo hitting the ground running, I assume that's the plan without impeding the building process. I'd rather have a new PG in place sooner rather than later, because at some point in the next 1.5 seasons, Calderon will be replaced, and the offense will have to be learned by whoever the new guy is.

        We can all fantasize about Calderon retiring as a Raptors. Who knows, it might actually happen, but he won't be our starter for much longer. That, I'll guarantee.

        Comment


        • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
          I don't understand this.

          If he's doing it already, he's clearly capable of doing it. And he's been doing it ALL season.
          A season which he has spent generally healthy.


          And as for 'hitting the ground running', I understood this simply to mean that he'd like to be in "Time to Win" mode by next season, as opposed to "Kicking the Tires and seeing what we've got".
          I'm not sure how not having Calderon is beneficial to this.

          In Calderon we KNOW what we've got. And thats a Legit Starting Point Guard.
          Trade him away and we're not left with much.

          Or as Jimmie put it, we're left HOPING and PRAYING that someone signs with us and not the other 15 teams that will have money. Or that our Top-20 pick pans out into a Legit Starter.
          Either of which is Gamble.
          I love it when me and Joey are in the same corner. Tag Team!
          Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Fri Mar 2, 2012, 10:07 AM.

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          • Nilanka wrote: View Post
            That's basically what I meant. That we shouldn't be relying on Calderon's current level of production to last.
            Why always this way of thinking? When Bargnani started playing defense, people still say its not going to last. Now Calderon's playing good basketball people are still saying its not going to last. Whats next? Casey's system is not going to last? Demar's good play of late is not going to last?

            Whats with the negativity in this world???

            Comment


            • tbihis wrote: View Post
              Why always this way of thinking? When Bargnani started playing defense, people still say its not going to last. Now Calderon's playing good basketball people are still saying its not going to last. Whats next? Casey's system is not going to last? Demar's good play of late is not going to last?

              Whats with the negativity in this world???
              You gotta look at overall career trends. It's not negative thinking, it's realistic thinking. Casey's always been a good defensive coach. There's no reason to think that will change.

              Bargnani has always been a poor defensive player/rebounder. 13 games this season is a welcome change, but I'm not 100% sold until he keeps it up for a full season at the very least.

              Calderon's old (in basketball terms), and has a history of injury problems. We can't be afraid to make tough decisions.

              If we were currently a playoff team, I'd be all for sticking with Calderon for another year or two. But since we're not, one of the many items on the rebuild "to-do" list involves finding a PG. If an opportunity arises between now and March 15th, I pull the trigger without hesitation.
              Last edited by Nilanka; Fri Mar 2, 2012, 10:15 AM.

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              • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                You gotta look at overall career trends. It's not negative thinking, it's realistic thinking. Casey's always been a good defensive coach. There's no reason to think that will change.

                Bargnani has always been a poor defensive player/rebounder. 13 games this season is a welcome change, but I'm not 100% sold until he keeps it up for a full season at the very least.

                Calderon's old (in basketball terms), and has a history of injury problems. We can't be afraid to make tough decisions.

                If we were currently a playoff team, I'd be all for sticking with Calderon for another year or two. But since we're not, one of the many items on the rebuild "to-do" list involves finding a PG. If an opportunity arises between now and March 15th, I pull the trigger without hesitation.
                Sounds familiar, i think we've had this discussion before with Tim W, God bless his soul, wherever he may be, hehehe.

                IMO, one cant keep dismantling the present in preparing for the future, specifically when what you have at the present time, works. Its not like "saving for a rainy day". Money is constant, it doesnt change. But if you keep giving away current assets that can actually help you and is not being a hindrance, for "potential" assets that you have no guarantees on, why do it? I know the history about Barganani's struggles and Calderon's injuries, that has been beaten to death in this forum, but now you have a Bargnani who plays defense and a healthy Calderon, why ruin that? Because, it "might" not last long? Well picks arent sure things either. They may or may not pan out. At least with Bargnani and Calderon, you know what you have, and you know what you will get.

                With Calderon, Bargnani, a solid draft pick and FA and JV, Ed, Amir, Demar, JJ, Kleiza maybe Barbosa and Bayless, Casey's defensive system, a full training camp and full practices during a full season, wouldnt this team look like a playoff team to you? Specially on an aging East? If you let Calderon go and say draft a PG, now you have 2 rookies, one who you will rely on heavily to fit the team, run the system and get everybody to play together? You're willing to put that on rookie shoulders?

                I think each one of us, when discussing the team's "future", always has OKC in the back of our heads.

                Comment


                • A playoff appearance next season sounds good, but I'd rather aim for sustained playoff appearances. And Calderon's age prevents him from being a legitimate part of that equation.

                  Colangelo has mentioned on air that he's looking for an upgrade at PG, so it's not like I'm way out in left field.

                  We shouldn't be assuming Calderon's replacement will be a rookie. What if someone like Jennings, or Lawson becomes available?

                  Comment


                  • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                    A playoff appearance next season sounds good, but I'd rather aim for sustained playoff appearances. And Calderon's age prevents him from being a legitimate part of that equation.

                    Colangelo has mentioned on air that he's looking for an upgrade at PG, so it's not like I'm way out in left field.

                    We shouldn't be assuming Calderon's replacement will be a rookie. What if someone like Jennings, or Lawson becomes available?
                    True. But, like i said before, i dont doubt Calderon still has at least a good 5 years left in him. And in those 5 years, i dont doubt that they will make the playoffs, maybe even the Eastern finals and fingers crossed, the finals.

                    Even if he plays for Spain during the offseason, he wont log as much minutes as he did before, now that Rubio is on the rise and Navarro is still tearing it up in Europe.

                    Jennings is definitely not a pass first PG and Lawson can be argued as a PG/SG. But i do know where you're coming from. Be it an FA or rookie, i dont think there's a PG in the NBA right now, that the Raps can get, who fits the Raps system like Calderon does.

                    Comment


                    • Does Calderon fit Toronto's system? Or was the system designed to fit Calderon?

                      (I just blew your mind, didn't I )

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                      • I guess the difference between our views stems from our beliefs in how long Calderon has left in the tank. I personally don't think he's got 5 years of high-level production left.

                        Of course, I could be wrong, but I would feel more comfortable if Colangelo opened the next chapter in Toronto's PG tale.

                        Comment


                        • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                          Does Calderon fit Toronto's system? Or was the system designed to fit Calderon?

                          (I just blew your mind, didn't I )
                          hahaha last time i checked his last name is still Calderon, not Wade, James, Bryant or Jordan.
                          Aint nobody going to devise a system to fit him.

                          Comment


                          • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                            I guess the difference between our views stems from our beliefs in how long Calderon has left in the tank. I personally don't think he's got 5 years of high-level production left.

                            Of course, I could be wrong, but I would feel more comfortable if Colangelo opened the next chapter in Toronto's PG tale.
                            I agree. i just believe that you have a PG in Calderon who already knows the games of Bargnani, Derozan, Amir, Ed, JJ, Kleiza, Barbo and Bayless, who in my strong opinion, could be a majority of their core coming into next year and most likely the years after that. You bring in a new PG who may fit Bargnani's game, or Derozan, or both, or maybe all of them, but there's no guarantee, unlike with Calderon, its already a guarantee.

                            Comment


                            • Barbosa's Trade Value

                              According to a Brazilian report, the Boston Celtics are interested in the services of Leandro Barbosa
                              The Brazilian report indicates the Raptors are looking for an expiring contract and a first round pick in return for Barbosa. The Celtics can put together a package involving a first round pick, Chris Wilcox, Kenyon Dooling and Sasha Pavlovic for Barbosa. The trade works under the CBA’s trade rules
                              http://blogs.canada.com/2012/03/02/r...s-trade-value/

                              If a 3-for-1 deal goes down, we'd need to release 2 players. My guess would be Alabi and Forbes.

                              Comment


                              • 15 men on roster which means Colangelo would have to cut two guys. My guess would be Butler and Magloire.

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