Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Everything Trade Deadline: Lesson learned today? Don't trust Casey (462)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Calderon for a Top 20 pick is not worth it in my opinion.
    We'd need something besides the pick coming back our way I'd imagine.

    And its not just 'Jose passing to a rookie and making him look good'.
    Its Jose being the Consumate Floor Leader that he is and helping transition a young Big Man into the NBA the BEST way possible.
    And thats by teaching him on the floor. And Jose does that better than almost anyone in the league.
    Sure, Calderon can help in those areas, but I don't think it's crucial to keep him for those reasons. Valanciunas is talented enough of a player that with or without Calderon, he's going to be a stud in this league (he's progressed this far already playing alongside no-name EuroLeague PGs). Calderon is not an essential part of the Valanciunas equation. I still think a top 20 pick (in a very deep draft) does much more for the Raptors long-term than holding onto Calderon for the sake of developing youth.

    Calderon is a great person, a loyal teammate, a consummate professional, and all those rosy stuff, but since this is a business, they're not reasons to hold onto an aging $10 million man in the final year of his contract, while fully knowing he's not the PG of our future. If there are offers of 2012 first round picks involved with Calderon, we need to seriously consider them.

    Comment


    • Nilanka wrote: View Post
      Sure, Calderon can help in those areas, but I don't think it's crucial to keep him for those reasons. Valanciunas is talented enough of a player that with or without Calderon, he's going to be a stud in this league (he's progressed this far already playing alongside no-name EuroLeague PGs). Calderon is not an essential part of the Valanciunas equation. I still think a top 20 pick (in a very deep draft) does much more for the Raptors long-term than holding onto Calderon for the sake of developing youth.
      It's not solely for the sake of developing youth.
      You can eventually have too much youth on a team, to the point where it is a detriment to the development of said youth. (See Washington Wizards)

      A Top 20 pick could net us a quality player. Or it could net us a complete bust, and then we traded our second best player for nothing. Bummer.

      I'm not saying don't trade Jose. And I'm not saying not to trade him for a pick.
      What I am saying, is make sure we get the absolute best deal possible for a Guaranteed Starter in the NBA. And a Top 20 pick is NOT the best deal we can get for him. I promise you that.

      Comment


      • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
        It's not solely for the sake of developing youth.
        You can eventually have too much youth on a team, to the point where it is a detriment to the development of said youth. (See Washington Wizards)

        A Top 20 pick could net us a quality player. Or it could net us a complete bust, and then we traded our second best player for nothing. Bummer.

        I'm not saying don't trade Jose. And I'm not saying not to trade him for a pick.
        What I am saying, is make sure we get the absolute best deal possible for a Guaranteed Starter in the NBA. And a Top 20 pick is NOT the best deal we can get for him. I promise you that.
        I'm not sure what Calderon's trade value is with GMs around the league, but I do know that it's probably higher now than it was 12 months ago, and my gut tells me it will probably drop 12 months from now. Based on that, I think the next 2 weeks might be our best opportunity to get "top dollar" for Calderon.

        If we wait until next season to address Calderon's future in Toronto, I would assume he'd be worth less in trade talks since he'd be considered a rental player. Or if we don't trade him at all next season, we run the risk of losing him to free agency for nothing.

        Comment


        • Nilanka wrote: View Post
          I'm not sure what Calderon's trade value is with GMs around the league, but I do know that it's probably higher now than it was 12 months ago, and my gut tells me it will probably drop 12 months from now. Based on that, I think the next 2 weeks might be our best opportunity to get "top dollar" for Calderon.

          If we wait until next season to address Calderon's future in Toronto, I would assume he'd be worth less in trade talks since he'd be considered a rental player. Or if we don't trade him at all next season, we run the risk of losing him to free agency for nothing.
          I don't think his trade value has changed as much as some people think -- 2 years ago he was traded for Chandler and Diaw. I think he's always been undervalued by the Toronto fanbase, but I don't for a second believe that scouts, coaches, and GMs around the league have been similarly undervaluing him. I think most coaches in the NBA would love to have a PG like Calderon helming their offense.

          I definitely agree with Joey that he's worth more than a mid/late 1st-rounder, and I think it's pretty obvious that Raptor management feels the same way, or he'd have been gone long ago.
          Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

          Comment


          • Nilanka wrote: View Post
            I'm not sure what Calderon's trade value is with GMs around the league, but I do know that it's probably higher now than it was 12 months ago, and my gut tells me it will probably drop 12 months from now. Based on that, I think the next 2 weeks might be our best opportunity to get "top dollar" for Calderon.

            If we wait until next season to address Calderon's future in Toronto, I would assume he'd be worth less in trade talks since he'd be considered a rental player. Or if we don't trade him at all next season, we run the risk of losing him to free agency for nothing.
            It's a bit of a catch-22 though, since next season a $10M expiring contract could be highly valued. My heart tells me to keep Calderon, but my head says to trade him now for max value with the future in mind.

            Comment


            • jimmie wrote: View Post
              I don't think his trade value has changed as much as some people think -- 2 years ago he was traded for Chandler and Diaw. I think he's always been undervalued by the Toronto fanbase, but I don't for a second believe that scouts, coaches, and GMs around the league have been similarly undervaluing him. I think most coaches in the NBA would love to have a PG like Calderon helming their offense.

              I definitely agree with Joey that he's worth more than a mid/late 1st-rounder, and I think it's pretty obvious that Raptor management feels the same way, or he'd have been gone long ago.
              I admit Calderon's an asset. But the last thing I want is to lose that asset for nothing next year. Expiring contracts don't always get moved. And a 2012 draft pick seems to be more valuable than a 2013 pick.

              Bosh's situation was horribly mishandled by Colangelo (in hindsight, of course). I'd hate to see that happen again.

              Comment


              • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                I admit Calderon's an asset. But the last thing I want is to lose that asset for nothing next year. Expiring contracts don't always get moved. And a 2012 draft pick seems to be more valuable than a 2013 pick.
                Seems to be, but when Scouts the league over are realizing that 2012 is NOT going to be the draft they thought it would, this notion slowly becomes Obsolete.
                A sign-and-trade on Joses expired contract is always an option as well. So even once he's expired and we get the Cap Space, we can still capitalize on his leaving. If that is the situation.

                To just move him for the sake of moving him will NOT do justice to what Jose means to this team, nor will it do justice to what Jose is as a player.

                Bosh's situation was horribly mishandled by Colangelo (in hindsight, of course). I'd hate to see that happen again.
                Bosh and Calderons situations can't even be compared, in my opinion.
                But yes, in Hindsight, thats VERY easy to say.

                Comment


                • man i was so pumped for today and now its just dragging on zzzzzzzzzzzz
                  @sweatpantsjer

                  Comment


                  • ceez wrote: View Post
                    man i was so pumped for today and now its just dragging on zzzzzzzzzzzz
                    Get ready for 14 more! haha

                    Comment


                    • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                      Bosh and Calderons situations can't even be compared, in my opinion.
                      They're similar in terms of this discussion though. That is, how to deal with a contract at the height of its value.

                      The difference with Bosh's situation is that I personally believe Colangelo wanted him to re-sign. But in Calderon's case, it seems obvious that Colangelo doesn't see him as our long-term PG.

                      As for the quality of the draft, I heard about some scouts recent opinions, but I wouldn't call it a league-wide consensus opinion. There is still a TON of college ball left to be played before any concluding statements can be made. But based on the influence of the lockout alone, it's fair to assume that the 2012 draft will be deeper than 2011 and 2013.

                      Comment


                      • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        Get ready for 14 more! haha
                        Don't remind me, sigh.
                        @sweatpantsjer

                        Comment


                        • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                          They're similar in terms of this discussion though. That is, how to deal with a contract at the height of its value.

                          The difference with Bosh's situation is that I personally believe Colangelo wanted him to re-sign. But in Calderon's case, it seems obvious that Colangelo doesn't see him as our long-term PG.

                          As for the quality of the draft, I heard about some scouts recent opinions, but I wouldn't call it a league-wide consensus opinion. There is still a TON of college ball left to be played before any concluding statements can be made. But based on the influence of the lockout alone, it's fair to assume that the 2012 draft will be deeper than 2011 and 2013.
                          They aren't even remotely the same!

                          Bosh was an expiring contract looking for max money, who wanted out of Toronto (I don't care what he or BC or anybody else said, if you believed he was going to stay you're out of your mind, which is why I wanted to trade him the offseason before his final season in a Raptors uniform).

                          Calderon has another year left on his contract and would very likely re-sign with the Raptors after next season for a cheaper contract than his current one, while being a loyal teammate throughout his tenure regardless of the crap (ie: all the TJ, Jack, Bayless starting controversies, essentially being traded once and dealing with rumors and calls from 'fans' to be amnestied this offseason) he's been forced to deal with.

                          100% different situations, aside from the fact that BC is mulling potential trade options, which could be said about any player on any roster.

                          Comment


                          • why does everyone think Jose would resign for cheap? did he say something to that effect? genuine question.

                            i think he'd sign with a contender for cheap, but i dunno about here.
                            @sweatpantsjer

                            Comment


                            • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                              They aren't even remotely the same!

                              Bosh was an expiring contract looking for max money, who wanted out of Toronto (I don't care what he or BC or anybody else said, if you believed he was going to stay you're out of your mind, which is why I wanted to trade him the offseason before his final season in a Raptors uniform).

                              Calderon has another year left on his contract and would very likely re-sign with the Raptors after next season for a cheaper contract than his current one, while being a loyal teammate throughout his tenure regardless of the crap (ie: all the TJ, Jack, Bayless starting controversies, essentially being traded once and dealing with rumors and calls from 'fans' to be amnestied this offseason) he's been forced to deal with.

                              100% different situations, aside from the fact that BC is mulling potential trade options, which could be said about any player on any roster.
                              I wasn't referring to Bosh's final season.

                              Regardless, I'll say it again. I don't want us to lose a valuable asset for nothing, like we did with Bosh. That's where the comparison starts and ends.

                              If a decent offer comes along, it would be irresponsible for Colangelo not to seriously consider it, especially with the knowledge that Calderon isn't a core piece. I personally think Calderon is worth a top-20 pick.

                              Comment


                              • ceez wrote: View Post
                                why does everyone think Jose would resign for cheap? did he say something to that effect? genuine question.

                                i think he'd sign with a contender for cheap, but i dunno about here.
                                Nobody knows if he'll sign for cheap or not, with any team. So banking on him doing so makes very little sense to me.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X