wait, you'd really think Calderon is better than Rose and Rondo?
So glad somebody brought this up. And we wonder why no decent players want to stay in Toronto, we don't appreciate talent and consistency, all we want is a quick fix. When we get that we want a rebuild. It really bothers me since Jose has been the epitome of class this season.
There is something that all the best players have in common. They win games. When I say they win games I mean their team wins games that they wouldn't without that elite skill set that can take over a game and put you in the win column. Jose, has his positives but being that kind of player he isn't. In his NBA career never has he demonstrated the ability to score on a consistent basis or defend a top PG. Yes the A/T record is wonderful and I loved the year he couldn't miss a free throw but IMHO this team needs more from the PG than what he has. When it comes to wins this year with Bayless or Jose it probably won't make much of a difference but I prefer to see this team go in a new direction.
but the argument isn't is jose top 5/10 (maybe 10, 5 no way) or even if he is a good player. it is about the best for the team going forward and if the opportunity comes to make a somewhat lateral move at the point and get a prospect or pick for jose you need to take it.
this is basketball. they pretend the motto is "where amazing happens" but it is "this is a business" and all decisions must be made with businessmen like uncaring.
I thought we were supposed to trade all current players for "a prospect" and some magic beans? I figure it's like horse doctoring. Playing poorly? Trade. Playing hard but not top talent? Trade while the effort is there. Talented and playing hard. Trade while the trade value is maxed and theres no injuries. Outstanding player having a career year? Trade for prospects and cap space. Whatever Jose's rank is in terms of point guards, I dont see any players of his quality currently available, draft or free agents. If there was "a lateral move" to be had, plus a bonus, I could see it. It's when you try and figure who is a lateral move for Jose that you start to appreciate how good he is and what his ranking could/should be. He certainly is top 5 to 10 in some catagories. In others, not so much. I'll still take him as our PG over someone who is middle of the road in all catagories, or even a bit better in ones that arent as important. Ideally, I'd love for him to not risk injury playing for the Spanish team as much as he does. I hope that as he gets a bit older, that he might favour the Raptors needs over his national team. I understand it certainly, but in many ways, thats my biggest complaint when it comes to Jose. Keep him for next year. See then what the chemistry is with the new faces and what other quality PG's are to be had at that point, then see what kind of $$$ he is going to need to stay.
There isn't a list of great players who left bad teams because their team couldn't win games. Maybe they left because they wanted a better shot at a championship but if they are or were a great player they won games that the team wouldn't have won without them doing what great players do. LeBron is one example. The team fell apart without him. Even Bosh put the team on his back occasionally. That is what i'm referring to and I think most of us know what it means. Jose hasn't shown the ability to take it upon himself to do what a great PG can do.
Calderon is no doubt a solid player. But I personally don't see him as a difference maker in the sense that j bean is referring to. If Calderon sat out a few games, I wouldn't be surprised to see the same "compete level" with Bayless running the point (and I personally think Bayless is a terrible PG).
Edit: And by "compete level", I'm referring to hard fought close losses.
Last edited by Nilanka; Tue Mar 6th, 2012 at 01:06 PM.
I... I can't help it. When someone actually post in all seriousness that the reigning MVP doesn't make their team better and isn't as good as Calderon, I have to post something.
I think this team has made us get a bit of Stockholm Syndrome, where we've fallen for our captors and just start overrating everyone. This team is bad. Very bad. Having Calderon leave won't change that because they will still be bad. If you handed the reigns to Bayless, I'm sure he can do just as good of a job running a pick and roll and going at a .250 winning clip as Jose can do. In fact, if they lose more, then GOOD, cause they will get a better chance at a higher draft pick. At some point in time, the Raps have to figure out if they have something with Bayless. Guys like Barbosa, Calderon, Carter, Maglore, Klieza... they don't matter. On this current roster, really, only Bargnani matters (to a lesser extent, DeRozan, although he's looking more and more like Jeff Malone). Trading Calderon and getting a possible late round draft pick or even cap relief will not only open up more time to Bayless, but you also reward a good soldier in Calderon by trading him to a team where he can actually play for something instead of toiling away on a lottery team. Let him go to a team where he can use his skills (decent spot up shooter, runs a team well, low turnovers) and where he doesn't have to be the 1st, 2nd or 3rd option.
Calderon really is a victim of bad timing. 5 or 6 yrs ago, he'd be going up against the likes of Eric Snow and Kirk Hinrick. Since then, you've had a PG boom in the league and now, he's just another guy. He's no better or worse than the likes of Mike Conley, Jeff Teague or Jrue Holliday (depending on what you want). It's time to cut the cord. I'm sure the Raptors will be fine without him.
Damn, about time. Jose vs. Derrick Rose. Just stop.
I would like to see Jose retire a Raptor though, but not as our starting point guard. I've continuously said our real gaping hole is the point guard.
PG - Jose? Bayless?
SG - Demar
SF - James Johnson
PF - Andrea Bargnani
C - Jonas Valanciunas
We have good prospects and very good potential talent at every position EXCEPT the point guard. Bayless is a combo guard, sixth man, spark plus type player. If he were to start, he would be a point guard with a play-making shooting guard like D-Wade, Joe Johnson. Or a shooting guard.
We know what we get from Jose every night. Good assist/turnover ratio. Very good shooter, gets the ball to the right guys. Can create better looks for people. But he just doesn't have that second gear that he can turn on like Rondo, Rose, D-Will, Westbrook, CP3, where they can just decide to take over the game in ALL aspects, whether it be scoring, finding players, rebounding, defense, push, push, and push.
I think this year's draft is where we can grab a good young prospect to transition as our point guard for the future, or score for a contributing point guard prospect like DJ Augustine in the FA, or maybe trade to get a good point guard.
In conclusion, real problem is the point guard, unfortunately with this year's draft being so point guard weak, and how many available point guards in the FA are down, we never know what happens there.
Last edited by ReubenJRD; Wed Mar 7th, 2012 at 02:19 AM.
(Sorry for poor English )
How much more is a 30 year old Gerald Wallace going to give you next year at $11.4M than JJ would give you at $2.8M?
Now if Wallace opted out, that would certainly make things interesting as the Raptors would have cleared $16M off the books. But I very much like Kleiza off the bench.
Maybe Wallace for Calderon on draft night?
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