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  • tbihis wrote: View Post
    This is exactly why i think they should give Bayless a chance to be a starting PG. Calderon doesnt have the "next level" capacity. Im not making it a Jose vs Bayless comparison, but, ok, lets just compare Bayless to a pass-first PG. You know that pass first PG is always going to defer to the main/lead scorer. But Bayless, you have no clue what he's going to do. He may pass, he may shoot. And since his reputation is as a scorer, once he threads that middle, everybody will expect him to shoot, thats why if Casey work with him on his drive and kick or drop pass, he'll be a nightmare to guard. A pass first PG, you cant teach to be aggressive and put the game in his hands.

    If you look around the league, there are really no pass-first PGs anymore in successful teams. Its sad but it is a dying breed. And its because the game calls for it. The game now is more fast paced.
    I've always loved Bayless, but so many people have changed my mind about his reliability to run a team.

    Now, I'm going back to the start of the year where I called him the starting point guard for the future....

    It's just sometimes, he takes TOO many bad shots, and his mentality sometimes becomes shoot first, pass at the last moment when I can't shoot. Bayless can't take too much defensive pressure, and he's very predictable when it comes to running a set play etc. But, the thing I love about Bayless is when he is told to do something, he just does it. He actually tries to look for the hot hand, and tries to always get Demar and Andrea going, but like I said, it's not his first presence of mind.

    I don't know, I would love him to be our starting point guard, and than if he keeps turning the ball over, or loses control, Jose can come in an be an "Eric Maynor" type and slow it down, run the offense, and get the ball right where it needs to be.

    Pass first PG's CAN be aggressive and take over any game. I.E Steve Nash and Chris Paul. You can most definitely teach these two, or at least tell them to take over a game. CP3 and Nash ICE any game coming down to crunch time. There have been undoubtedly many games where Nash and CP3 just take over, whether it's scoring, changing the pace, etc etc. They are aggressive.

    Whether Bayless or Jose is starting or back up, we can't do as well without one of them out.
    Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

    Comment


    • I'm starting to feel like a broken record, but you know what I find astonishing is that you guys keep posting stats about Bayless trying to convince us that he's great, but Casey has all those numbers and then some. He's got a whole team of people crunching numbers that make 82games.com people look like they belong on the short bus. And guess what:

      Bayless is still not starting games when Jose is healthy, on a team that:
      1. Knows Jose is not part of the future.
      2. Chose not to extend Jerryd's rookie contract.
      3. Needs all the luck they can get in finding some kind of tangible talent at PG going forward.
      your pal,
      ebrian

      Comment


      • ebrian wrote: View Post
        I'm starting to feel like a broken record, but you know what I find astonishing is that you guys keep posting stats about Bayless trying to convince us that he's great, but Casey has all those numbers and then some. He's got a whole team of people crunching numbers that make 82games.com people look like they belong on the short bus. And guess what:

        Bayless is still not starting games when Jose is healthy, on a team that:
        1. Knows Jose is not part of the future.
        2. Chose not to extend Jerryd's rookie contract.
        3. Needs all the luck they can get in finding some kind of tangible talent at PG going forward.
        Very good points and i totally agree with them.

        But if you look at the flipside, there are also a lot of factors on why Casey and management are doing this, to the benefit of the team moving forward with Bayless.

        First of all, no way theyre going to yank Jose off the starting 5, unless he starts putting up zeroes across the board. Jose is not playing poor and not playing stellar either. Casey already came out and said there will be no PG controversy on his watch. And who knows, they might be giving him more time to showcase his talents so they can get better offers from teams that may want him in the offseason. And the more the play Jerryd, the more money he's going to command when his contract expires. Maybe theyre keeping him on the down-low so they can re-sign him for cheap, then make him starter on a cheap contract.

        IMO, Bayless can be a starting PG later in his career if he fixes some aspects of his game, but definitely not now.

        Comment


        • RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
          I've always loved Bayless, but so many people have changed my mind about his reliability to run a team.

          Now, I'm going back to the start of the year where I called him the starting point guard for the future....

          It's just sometimes, he takes TOO many bad shots, and his mentality sometimes becomes shoot first, pass at the last moment when I can't shoot. Bayless can't take too much defensive pressure, and he's very predictable when it comes to running a set play etc. But, the thing I love about Bayless is when he is told to do something, he just does it. He actually tries to look for the hot hand, and tries to always get Demar and Andrea going, but like I said, it's not his first presence of mind.

          I don't know, I would love him to be our starting point guard, and than if he keeps turning the ball over, or loses control, Jose can come in an be an "Eric Maynor" type and slow it down, run the offense, and get the ball right where it needs to be.

          Pass first PG's CAN be aggressive and take over any game. I.E Steve Nash and Chris Paul. You can most definitely teach these two, or at least tell them to take over a game. CP3 and Nash ICE any game coming down to crunch time. There have been undoubtedly many games where Nash and CP3 just take over, whether it's scoring, changing the pace, etc etc. They are aggressive.

          Whether Bayless or Jose is starting or back up, we can't do as well without one of them out.
          I agree with all the points you said about Bayless, thats why im arguing the fact the he CAN be the future starting PG of the Raptors and not the current starting PG.

          I think Nash and Paul are mixed breeds, meaning they definitely will pass and will score too. IMO, the only two legit pass first PGs in the NBA right now among starters are Rondo and Calderon. But even Rondo has already said that he needs to be more aggressive on offense so sooner or later he might be on the middle as well. If you really want a pure pass first PG, Calderon is the closest behind John Stockton, IMO.

          Comment


          • tbihis wrote: View Post
            Doesnt it go the same for Jose as well - http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/...3AIl4YsM1BPaB4
            Exactly.

            Neither Jose or Bayless are the answers at PG moving forward - but if I had to choose one, it would be Jose.

            However you have just the game log. The original point I made about Bayless were his stats in wins versus losses. If you go to ESPn, then the player profile, click on splits, they break down stats in wins versus loses.

            http://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits.../jose-calderon

            The original statement was Bayless plays better in losses which scares me. Calderon on the other hand has much better overall stats in wins than losses. In my opinion, that is important.
            Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:02 PM.

            Comment


            • One thing Bayless has that you can't teach is how fearless he is. Don't you guys think that Bayless knows that if he try to take over this games and fails that everybody is going hating on him the next day. He still does it. Nobody else on this team is brave enough to do that but maybe Andrea. Kid works hard on every position and is extremely talented he will succeed I just hope it's here.
              @Chr1st1anL

              Comment


              • tbihis wrote: View Post
                I agree with all the points you said about Bayless, thats why im arguing the fact the he CAN be the future starting PG of the Raptors and not the current starting PG.

                I think Nash and Paul are mixed breeds, meaning they definitely will pass and will score too. IMO, the only two legit pass first PGs in the NBA right now among starters are Rondo and Calderon. But even Rondo has already said that he needs to be more aggressive on offense so sooner or later he might be on the middle as well. If you really want a pure pass first PG, Calderon is the closest behind John Stockton, IMO.
                Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Rondo, Calderon IMO are NOT mixed breeds, but I can see why you say that.

                Point guards score and have that NEED to be more aggressive to keep any defense honest and give a different look towards the opposing team. See Chris Paul? On his talented team, he can score 3 points but have 14 assists and win the game. Same goes for Rondo and Calderon, why? Because the opposing team's game-plan was to keep those guys out of scoring the basketball and making them let other players score. As of now Calderon, Rondo, Nash, and Paul are the best players on their respective teams, and yet they don't need to score even a single point to win a single game, because they get the others involved so well.

                Than what if they try to make them score? At some point, the opposing defense will try and take away any passing lanes, and make these players score and shoot. And that has been a problem of Jose's and Rondo's for a while. Being more aggressive offensively whether it's penetration, scoring, shooting, etc. So they can keep the defense honest and play both ways.

                IMO, that's a PURE pass first point guard, where the mentality is pass first, score second, and the only guys I can name with those mentalities are Calderon, Nash, Rondo, Paul, and Kidd.
                Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                Comment


                • Bayless is fearless, but trying to take over a game isn't a fear thing, it most definitely needs bravery and confidence, but it requires good decision making. And that's what Bayless struggles in, whether it's shot selection, set play, making the right passes etc.

                  At the end of the game, the ball at crunch time, the ball in the dying moments, needs to be in either Andrea, or Demar's hands. Hell most definitely Calderon's hands. Sure, Bayless is an awesome 1-on-1 player, but that doesn't always define you are a good clutch player if you can cross someone over and take a shot near the end. You can keep on doing it consistently, but it will all depend on how successful you are. I.E Kobe vs. Lebron in clutch moments.
                  Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                  Comment


                  • HoopsWorld.com: Bayless finds freedom with Raptors

                    Before he suffered a hip pointer and prior to Jose Calderon’s return from injury, Toronto Raptors point guard Jerryd Bayless was finally showing the flashes of his great potential. He scored 52 points over two games in mid March while still distributing 15 assists.

                    But those games weren’t statistical anomalies. The fact is, Bayless has been playing better all season, but it wasn’t until Calderon was out of the lineup that he had a chance to really show what he can do in extended minutes.

                    “It’s more of an opportunity,” Bayless told HOOPSWORLD. “When you get more of an opportunity, you can do more things. That’s what I’m trying to do.”

                    Specifically, it gave Bayless a chance to shoot more, which is something he’s been encouraged to do under coach Dwane Casey.

                    You see, in Bayless’ previous stops in Portland and New Orleans under coaches Nate McMillan and Monty Williams, he wasn’t asked to score at all. In fact, playing behind a litany of guards on both teams, Bayless wasn’t asked to do much of anything.

                    And when he did have the courage to shoot, Bayless said, he wasn’t rewarded for his aggressiveness.

                    “When you know that you’re not going to get pulled when you miss one, that’s the biggest thing,” Bayless said when explaining why he’s shooting a career-high 42% from behind the arc this season. “Being able to play free with your mind at ease is a big thing.”

                    Bayless didn’t specify if it was McMillan or Williams who was stifling him, but just said that it was the case “100 percent” of the time before he was traded from New Orleans to Toronto in November of 2010 (the third time he’d been traded since being drafted by Indiana with the 11th pick in the first round of the 2008 NBA Draft).

                    “It is what it is,” Bayless said. “Some coaches have more trust in other people. Luckily I’ve been blessed to be able to come here and this opportunity’s been great. I love it here in Toronto and I hope I’m here for a long time.”

                    Casey would probably be okay with that.

                    Bayless has averaged a career high 11.6 PPG this season while adding 3.8 APG, but it’s his decision making that’s grown the most. 15.2% of Bayless’ possessions ended in a turnover as a rookie. Now only 11.1% of his possessions end that way while 24% of his possessions end with an assist. That’s not a remarkable number for a point guard, but for a playmaker who is also in charge of finding his own shot, it’s a healthy rate.

                    “Continue to be aggressive and make plays for others and yourself,” Bayless said, explaining what Casey has asked of him. “Just try to do what you do. We know what you’re capable of. Just be you. Everything else will take care of itself.”

                    It’s not clear when Bayless will return to uniform for Toronto or what exactly his role be when he gets back. (Bayless confessed he didn’t know either, but said he’s “trying to do the best” he can while helping the Raptors win).

                    For the first time in his career he’s playing for a team that clearly wants him around. Bayless is only 23 years old and should be tendered a qualifying offer this summer, which would make him a restricted free agent. Team president Bryan Colangelo obviously wants a long-term solution at the position, and with Calderon’s deal expiring after next season, the time is right to give Bayless a home.

                    http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-jer...m-with-raptors

                    Freedom does tend to be easier to come by on a bottom feeding team in the NBA with less talent to defer to and direct.

                    Comment


                    • Casey: "Just try and do what you do". Idk...that is a lot of freedom!

                      Mcmillan & Williams are not chopped liver as coaches and they had pretty good rosters (Portland especially). They just wanted him I imagine to be a traditional pg not a Westbrook wannabe. And he was subbing for CP3 and Roy would have/probably demanded to have the ball plenty in Portland. So I cant blame those coaches. I think deep down he understands that and he is fortunate he is here. However, that "do anything you want" philosophy will change once this team gets more talent on it and the scoring options on the wing and upfront get better. It's great Bayless can prove he can shoot and drive but I stll like my pg to make passing plays as a priority and seek the shot as a last option...and I think because of his shot making he can do this.

                      ps...Westbrook scored 45 a couple of days ago! Hmmm.

                      Excuse me, I did not read your comment at the end...kind of duplicated and pretty much in agreement
                      Last edited by Bendit; Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:13 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Great article. I agree that he should get his QO. IMO I dont think that will be able to find a upgrade for him that wants to come here.
                        @Chr1st1anL

                        Comment


                        • Injury concerns for Bayless?

                          Does Bayless' injury history give anyone concern?

                          His ankle appears to be more than accidents and is borderline chronic with his left ankle being sprained and causing him to miss games 9 times in his NBA career thus far (and that doesn't consider the times he played with a bum ankle i.e. not at 100%).

                          The hip pointer is a bit less of a concern but it is still another injury where one could question his body.


                          So, what do you think? Cause for concern or unfortunate reality of the profession (i.e. shit happens)?

                          Comment


                          • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            Does Bayless' injury history give anyone concern?

                            His ankle appears to be more than accidents and is borderline chronic with his left ankle being sprained and causing him to miss games 9 times in his NBA career thus far (and that doesn't consider the times he played with a bum ankle i.e. not at 100%).

                            The hip pointer is a bit less of a concern but it is still another injury where one could question his body.


                            So, what do you think? Cause for concern or unfortunate reality of the profession (i.e. shit happens)?
                            Yes it is a concern. Just another reason (and face-saving excuse for BC) to cut ties with Bayless after the season. Hopefully another team comes calling and we can S&T Bayless and our #50ish 2nd round pick for a early 2nd round pick.

                            Comment


                            • shit happens

                              Comment


                              • As far as injuries go for Bayless, my biggest concern is that the sample size of his performances gets shortened even further, which makes it much tougher to make an educated decision about him for the long haul.

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