"...the draft is arguably the smallest part of building a successful team."

[Arsenalist]

Well, here is the list of finalists for the NBA championships since 2000

Los Angeles Lakers Indiana Pacers
Los Angeles Lakers Philadelphia 76ers
Los Angeles Lakers New Jersey Nets
San Antonio Spurs New Jersey Nets
Los Angeles Lakers Detroit Pistons
San Antonio Spurs Detroit Pistons
Dallas Mavericks Miami Heat
San Antonio Spurs Cleveland Cavaliers
Los Angeles Lakers Boston Celtics
Los Angeles Lakers Orlando Magic
Los Angeles Lakers Boston Celtics
Dallas Mavericks Miami Heat

I don't see the draft, or more specifically, having good drafting position, being a huge factor in any of those teams success, outside of Cleveland.

All of those teams have managed to find a nice piece or two in the draft over that span of time, but that is more a factor of good scouting and/or smart management trades (packaging late first round picks with other assets) than good drafting position. I make the assumption, given the context of the comment Smith was responding to (changing the ping pong ball distribution) that draft position was the main point in his reply.

An extreme example would be LA, which has made it to the finals 11 times in 24 years since 1985 when the lottery draft was first instituted. I those 26 years only 20 teams have made it to the finals, in 52 opportunities.

Los Angeles Lakers Boston Celtics
Houston Rockets Detroit Pistons
Portland Trail Blazers Orlando Magic
Phoenix Suns Chicago Bulls
Houston Rockets Orlando Magic
Seattle SuperSonics New York Knicks
Utah Jazz Philadelphia 76ers
San Antonio Spurs Indiana Pacers
Dallas Mavericks New Jersey Nets
Miami Heat Cleveland Cavaliers

There is no doubt that finishing badly for several years helped about half of those teams, but the other half made multiple appearances, built on a tradition of being good teams, with many play-off appearances, and consequently, many seasons outside of the lottery.

Two points:

1. The time between drafting a player and winning a title isn't overnight. Dallas got Dirk on a draft-day deal (or thereabouts), same with Kobe, and the Spurs had Duncan. Did they win a title immediately? No. Did they win it with the people they got on draft day? yes.

2. You're comparing apples and oranges. The teams you listed can all attract free-agents, the Raptors cannot. Hence, drafting is even more important for the Raptors than teams who can afford to play the FA market. It's not a surprise that the very light success this franchise has had was on the backs of drafted players - Vince Carter, T-Mac, and not free-agents - Hedo Turkoglu, Jermaine O'Neal, etc.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

I think what Puffer is insinuating is once you get that franchise player, it doesnt make sense relying on the draft year after year to get talent. But i agree with Arse, the Raptors need this draft, heck, until they get a franchise player, they need to rely heavily on the draft.

Having said that, i would still trade that #1 pick if i was offered a franchise player in return.

[mcHAPPY]

I think what Puffer is insinuating is once you get that franchise player, it doesnt make sense relying on the draft year after year to get talent. But i agree with Arse, the Raptors need this draft, heck, until they get a franchise player, they need to rely heavily on the draft.

Having said that, i would still trade that #1 pick if i was offered a franchise player in return.

OKC might disagree. Durant in '07, Westbrook in '08, and Harden in '09 - pick 1, 4, and 3 respectively.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

OKC might disagree. Durant in '07, Westbrook in '08, and Harden in '09 - pick 1, 4, and 3 respectively.

I think we've gone through the OKC situation numerous times in the forum.

I maybe wrong, but those 3 draft picks probably cost Seattle their franchise.

[mcHAPPY]

I think we've gone through the OKC situation numerous times in the forum.

I maybe wrong, but those 3 draft picks probably cost Seattle their franchise.

The lack of a state-of-the-art arena cost Seattle their franchise. The success of Oklahoma City hosting the New Orleans Hornets after Katrina probably had an impact on that relocation as well.

Off the top of my head:

Shaq in Orlando. Next year they get #1 and trade Webber for Penney Hardaway who was #3.

Aldridge and Roy in Portland. Next year Oden #1. Didn't quite work out due to injury but, man, what if.

Kevin Love in Minnesota. Next year Rubio.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

The lack of a state-of-the-art arena cost Seattle their franchise. The success of Oklahoma City hosting the New Orleans Hornets after Katrina probably had an impact on that relocation as well.

Off the top of my head:

Shaq in Orlando. Next year they get #1 and trade Webber for Penney Hardaway who was #3.

Aldridge and Roy in Portland. Next year Oden #1. Didn't quite work out due to injury but, man, what if.

Kevin Love in Minnesota. Next year Rubio.

9 out 10 years of losing seasons werent able to get them the funding, i believe.

True...

[Hugmenot]

Two points:

1. The time between drafting a player and winning a title isn't overnight. Dallas got Dirk on a draft-day deal (or thereabouts), same with Kobe, and the Spurs had Duncan. Did they win a title immediately? No. Did they win it with the people they got on draft day? yes.

2. You're comparing apples and oranges. The teams you listed can all attract free-agents, the Raptors cannot. Hence, drafting is even more important for the Raptors than teams who can afford to play the FA market. It's not a surprise that the very light success this franchise has had was on the backs of drafted players - Vince Carter, T-Mac, and not free-agents - Hedo Turkoglu, Jermaine O'Neal, etc.

Vince Carter was acquired via a trade; we drafted Antwan Jamison.

[stretch]

The Rubio pick was acquired by Minnesota via a trade with Washington for Mike Miller and Randy Foye.

[Hugmenot]

Houston drafted Ralph Samson in 1983 and then redefined the word tank the following season to win a 50% chance at the privilege of drafting Hakeem Olajuwon.

I was always curious whether Houston would have been a better team than Chicago had Sampson not been injured.

[Puffer]

Been an interesting discussion. I'm not personally convinced that Drafting is the most important element of a teams success, but it probably isn't the least important either.

What messes things up is when teams get good drafting position, and then their management team makes bad selections. Contrariwise, teams drafting in worst position often get excellent picks that were flying under the radar, or that are solid role players that every team wants five years down the road, making trades possible when the team is trying to fill holes in the roster.

[mcHAPPY]

The Rubio pick was acquired by Minnesota via a trade with Washington for Mike Miller and Randy Foye.

True but they had their #6 pick, ironically another PG. Did anyone ever hear about that? lol

[mcHAPPY]

Been an interesting discussion. I'm not personally convinced that Drafting is the most important element of a teams success, but it probably isn't the least important either.

What messes things up is when teams get good drafting position, and then their management team makes bad selections. Contrariwise, teams drafting in worst position often get excellent picks that were flying under the radar, or that are solid role players that every team wants five years down the road, making trades possible when the team is trying to fill holes in the roster.

I agree it has been a good discussion.

I still definitely disagree with the draft being arguably the smallest part of building a successful team. A lot of things go in to building a successful team but I don't think the draft is the least of them. The draft gives struggling teams their best shot at young, talented players.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

I agree it has been a good discussion.

I still definitely disagree with the draft being arguably the smallest part of building a successful team. A lot of things go in to building a successful team but I don't think the draft is the least of them. The draft gives struggling teams their best shot at young, talented players.

Matt, would you trade a #1 pick for an allstar/superstar?

[mcHAPPY]

Matt, would you trade a #1 pick for an allstar/superstar?

Depends on the player. Age, position, need would all play a factor.

Also there is a big difference between allstar and superstar.

How solid the #1 is also plays a role - is he consensus? Or a year like 2006 with no clear #1.

[NoPropsneeded]

I can only imagine what kind of amazing things we'll see next season from the raps