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ESPN Insider - NBA Draft Blog Sneak Peek - Beal, Marshall, Barnes

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  • #16
    But we didn't then and signed his contract, so no use playing hindsight games. He seemed more into it this year, once again sparking everyone's hopes that he could be a threat inside and outside, getting to the line at will, defending and even *gasp* rebounding - but now we have to think what we can still get out of his carcass come trade deadline and the need for a talent with a RELENTLESS motor and not just talent.

    That's why I'm moving away from Barnes. Talented but disinterested. Bargnani is sort of the same (albeit better under Casey). BC just has to stop being jerked around like everyone else and commit and if we can trade bargs for a pick + moving up in the draft we might be able to get MKG and Robinson. I would be pretty happy if that happened.

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    • #17
      I think that Drummond might still be a strong contender at #2 or #3. He is the second youngest in the draft (is still only 18 1/2 years old), and his physical attributes and overall skill level will likely convince a GM that they can't pass on him. If AD, MKG and Beal are gone when the Raptors pick, I expect that Colangelo will have some difficulty passing over Drummond too.

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      • #18
        Darien wrote: View Post
        But we didn't then and signed his contract, so no use playing hindsight games. He seemed more into it this year, once again sparking everyone's hopes that he could be a threat inside and outside, getting to the line at will, defending and even *gasp* rebounding - but now we have to think what we can still get out of his carcass come trade deadline and the need for a talent with a RELENTLESS motor and not just talent.

        That's why I'm moving away from Barnes. Talented but disinterested. Bargnani is sort of the same (albeit better under Casey). BC just has to stop being jerked around like everyone else and commit and if we can trade bargs for a pick + moving up in the draft we might be able to get MKG and Robinson. I would be pretty happy if that happened.
        I can't see any way that the Raptors could end up with both MKG and Robinson, but if they did they would completely transform their front line into a very intense and athletic group. It would be a nice mix too.

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        • #19
          Kendall Marshall, PG, North Carolina

          Marshall didn't play one minute this weekend and his draft stock still took another major jump. Why? Because without him orchestrating things from the point, North Carolina's other six high school All-Americans struggled to get any semblance of an offense going. Marshall's unselfishness can sometimes get lost when he's on the court. But when you saw players like Barnes and John Henson try to create without him, they looked very ordinary. It's not inconceivable that if Marshall declares and his broken wrist is healed, he could be the first or second point guard off the board and go somewhere in the 9-to-14 range.
          very true regarding Marshall this guy could be Jason Kidd/Andre Miller. He does not posses the athleticism or scoring punch that makes you think he can succeed at the next level but he has some magical intangible ability to make his entire team better with an unselfish basketball IQ through the roof that makes him one of the toughest players to project in the years to come.
          "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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          • #20
            charlz wrote: View Post
            very true regarding Marshall this guy could be Jason Kidd/Andre Miller. He does not posses the athleticism or scoring punch that makes you think he can succeed at the next level but he has some magical intangible ability to make his entire team better with an unselfish basketball IQ through the roof that makes him one of the toughest players to project in the years to come.
            Calderon would be a great mentor for Marshall as well.

            For me, option #1 is drafting MKG or Beal with a top 3/4 pick.

            Option #2 would be settling for Barnes in the #4-6 pick.

            Option #3 would be trading down (if those 3 wings are gone) and hopefully picking up an additional lottery pick (ie: Raps' #7 pick and one/both 2nd round picks and perhaps a player like Bayless/Amir/Davis for both of Utah's or Portland's or New Orleans' lottery picks, if possible) to get Marshall and a lesser wing (ie: PJ3, Lamb, Jones, Miller)

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            • #21
              I would honestly take a shot on PJ3's potential over Barnes' stagnation.

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              • #22
                Who is/will be better..............Robinson or Williams picked #2 last year.

                Only nba level scouts need reply

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                • #23
                  Bendit wrote: View Post
                  Who is/will be better..............Robinson or Williams picked #2 last year.

                  Only nba level scouts need reply
                  I'm replying because it's an interesting question, not because I consider myself an NBA level scout

                  I honestly thought that Williams would be a ROY candidate this year. I was VERY impressed with what he did in college last year. Then again, if he was force-fed starters minutes (like Kyrie), I'm sure thing would be different.

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                  • #24
                    PJ3 just needs a coach like dwane casey. But i only want to take a chance on him if he can play the 3 in the nba

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                    • #25
                      Getting both MKG and Robinson would likely require a little help from the draft gods, plus Bargnani to go for a pick and some players and then we might have to ship out one of Amir, Ed or Derozan to move up, but if it were a possibility would you do it? Potential lineup

                      Calderon/Bayless
                      Forbes (Derozan if you kept him) scrub
                      MKG/JJ/Kleiza
                      Robinson/(ED)/(Amir)
                      Jval/Gray/Magloire

                      potentially FAs with our cap space - but this is a lineup that is all toughness and post play, not so much outside shooting, but it is a solid place to grow from.

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                      • #26
                        Lots of hating on Barnes and I don't see why. Sure, you may like what you see from other players more, but why do people think that Barnes won't be a good player? Just looking for facts here, not opinions.

                        It's a fact he has shooting range, it's a fact he has an NBA ready body, it's a fact he is has great b'ball IQ, fact that he's a good kid that plays within a team concept and is a willing passer (you're not going to see him pop his collar like a chump after every bucket he scores...this kid has maturity aka good locker room guy) . I'd also like to mention that it's a false statement to say Barnes lacks athletecism. He may not have the type of motor that MKG has, but I saw him finish atleast two aleey oop dunks in their last game and he did it with ease and was well above the rim. He may not have all world speed like LBJ, but neither does Pierce and he's heading to the HOF. I'd say there is a lot more good than bad.

                        Again, just trying to see what other peoples perspective is based on.

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                        • #27
                          Im not hating on Barnes, but Im not as high on him as I was last year. A lot of the things you said could be said about Bargs as well. Tons of talent, just never puts it together consistently. I don't want another Bargs is all.

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                          • #28
                            Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                            Lots of hating on Barnes and I don't see why. Sure, you may like what you see from other players more, but why do people think that Barnes won't be a good player? Just looking for facts here, not opinions.

                            It's a fact he has shooting range, it's a fact he has an NBA ready body, it's a fact he is has great b'ball IQ, fact that he's a good kid that plays within a team concept and is a willing passer (you're not going to see him pop his collar like a chump after every bucket he scores...this kid has maturity aka good locker room guy) . I'd also like to mention that it's a false statement to say Barnes lacks athletecism. He may not have the type of motor that MKG has, but I saw him finish atleast two aleey oop dunks in their last game and he did it with ease and was well above the rim. He may not have all world speed like LBJ, but neither does Pierce and he's heading to the HOF. I'd say there is a lot more good than bad.

                            Again, just trying to see what other peoples perspective is based on.
                            Barnes cannot create his own shot like Pierce and he is not near the defender Pierce is.

                            I think those are his 2 biggest drawbacks.

                            The other issue, in my opinion, is Barnes ceiling appears to be within reach. Right or wrong, a big part of the draft is the allure of the unknown, the untapped endless potential that so many fans and GM's fall in love with in the PJ3's and Andre Drummond's of the NBA world.

                            Personally, give me Barnes over Drummond or PJ3 any day. However when it comes to Beal and MKG, I'd take both before Barnes.

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                            • #29
                              Chad Ford's Stock Watch
                              Harrison Barnes, F, UNC

                              At this stage in the game, it's pretty hard for a top prospect to really do much damage to his stock. These are high-pressure games and no NBA scout is going to base an overall performance evaluation on one or two contests. With that said, Barnes' struggles this weekend without Marshall on the floor were alarming. He struggled to create any offense for himself, was often left taking off-balance jump shots and, with the exception of a hot streak toward the end of the first half versus Kansas, didn't look anything like the special player we all believed he could become. Barnes ended up going 8-for-30 from the field and, for the most part, it looked worse than the box score suggests. We've known for a while that Barnes struggles as a ball handler and can be one-dimensional, but without Marshall setting him up in the spots he wants to get to, he just isn't able to do too much.

                              With all of that said, a number of GMs still believe he can be a very effective weapon at the NBA level. His size and shooting ability for his position are good. Put him on the right team, with the right point guard, and don't ask him to be a superstar, and Barnes could still have a very effective NBA career. I don't think he's a franchise-changer, but if he continues to develop, Danny Granger or Luol Deng might be his upside. If he doesn't live up to his potential? Maybe he is the second coming of Martell Webster.

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                              • #30
                                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                Barnes cannot create his own shot like Pierce and he is not near the defender Pierce is.

                                I think those are his 2 biggest drawbacks.

                                The other issue, in my opinion, is Barnes ceiling appears to be within reach. Right or wrong, a big part of the draft is the allure of the unknown, the untapped endless potential that so many fans and GM's fall in love with in the PJ3's and Andre Drummond's of the NBA world.

                                Personally, give me Barnes over Drummond or PJ3 any day. However when it comes to Beal and MKG, I'd take both before Barnes.
                                Interesting.

                                We know that Barnes is a good shooter, so you have to think at the NBA level he'll be able to take advantage in a half court set when defences are spread out and playing man to man which they do the majority of the time. Sort of what everyone says about DeMar needing to improve his shooting to take advantage of his drive...except Barnes is already a good shooter. Keep in mind he's a rookie and will improve at all facets of the game. Also I'd have to say that he has good size and mobility to be a good defender. He's willing to be coached so he can learn to be a better defender, as by all accounts Barnes is a student of the game.

                                He may not excel in the open court breaking a guy down of the dribble, but we know most of the time the game is played in half court sets and in the playoffs when the game slows down you need guys whom can score in a half court set.

                                MKG has a great motor, can lock a guy down on D (and I'm not looking past how improtant that is), and brings some great intangibles but I'm not convinced he can be a legitimate scoring threat in the NBA. We know he currently is not a good shooter and I haven't seen him take guys off the dribble and get to the rim like like a Kobe or Wade. On the Raptors he will be a very good defender on a team that is currently struggling find consistent scoring options imo. Having said that I'd love to have him on the roster.

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