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  • #76
    sleepz wrote: View Post
    I don't always agree with you but I certainly respect your opinion.

    I think Colangelo saying this was relative to saying "I can't draft or acquire franchise changing talent so I'm going to call Bosh a franchise player and see where this goes".

    How can we honestly believe this (building around Bosh) when after he left he suddenly is saying that he is indeed not a franchise player, not the type of player to build around and he's thankful he didn't shackle the team with max handcuffs? Every team is going to have some kind of player turnover every year. Just because he signs a free agent or trades for someone doesn't necessarily mean it is done with an effort to building around Bosh because what players did he acquire (Jose doesn't count as he was here before BC) that actually complimented his game? His draft picks in the Bosh era weren't moves focused on complimenting Bosh's skills and game. I'm sure you'll disagree with this but I know you follow the game, when reviewing his player acquisitions does the list of players appear to be players that complimented his best player?

    If Bosh had taken the extension Colangelo would be saying the opposite. I don't trust anything Colangelo says and the more he says something doesn't bring anymore truth to it.
    I think that the very first thing bc did was attempt to go with a suns like team around bosh by bringing in tj and then the surrounding him with shooters. was working as evidenced in a coach of the year award and another executive of the year award. we all blew as hard as we could about how good we were going to be. bosh was ecstatic and everything was right in raptorland. then the proverbial shit hit the fan. our anchor went against the wishes of those who invested heavily in him and played for spain, a feud erupted between our point guards and then, the better of the two(at the time) in my opinion was pile drived into as near to cripple with the ability to walk as you can get.

    the next off season was an attempt at re-capturing the forward momentum we had lost and failed. then a last ditch effort to swing for the fences with hedo, no longer in build around bosh but now in a build to hopefully not lose bosh mode, screwed us for a year. lost a very good player for next to nothing and actually started building a team again. as a franchise we were in purgatory for a couple years after garbo and tj and are just now getting realizing where we are and who we are again.

    i don't remember bosh ever saying he was only ever a complimentary player and didn't deserve max money. if they could have worked all 3 of them getting paid in miami, they all would have. i do remember them talking about the couple of million in non endorsement deals they would be leaving on the table like it was the most noble of things anyone could ever do. whilst immediately signing lucrative milk sponsorships.

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    • #77
      I have no idea why we ditched Marion because we didn't want to pay him 10 mill. and then signed Hedo(the worse of the two) for more.
      If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

      Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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      • #78
        Waste of time

        I think that this discussion is a lot of panicking.

        For the first time in recent history we have a coach who is capable of actually coaching our team and changing the culture. We are in a good position with cap space and a high pick in a decent draft. I am not sure what more you could ask for.

        As for Ed, he is way better than people think and he takes a lot flack because he can't shoot. 2 seasons, no training camp. He is one of the best defenders we have both on and off the ball and is clearly one of our best shot blockers and rebounders.

        The fact is we're way off from being a title contender, but so are 25 other teams. All we can do is work with what we have and put the right management in place.

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        • #79
          BallaBalla wrote: View Post
          ...As for Ed, he is way better than people think and he takes a lot flack because he can't shoot. 2 seasons, no training camp. ....
          So a guy is making NBA money. He misses two training camps. He is off all summer and into the fall. He has atrocious shot mechanics. He can't hire a shooting coach for 3 months, for $50 - 70,000 to work with him every day and correct his atrocious shot? Because he's what...waiting for coach Casey to tell him how to shoot? Or because he's too busy playing video games?

          Every body says he has to bulk up. What was he doing from last April until this past November? Not spending time in the gym obviously. Does he realize it's on him to get better? If so, what has he improved from last year. If he doesn't change his head around he will be out of the league or a perennial 13th guy off the bench in 3 years.

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          • #80
            Puffer wrote: View Post
            So a guy is making NBA money. He misses two training camps. He is off all summer and into the fall. He has atrocious shot mechanics. He can't hire a shooting coach for 3 months, for $50 - 70,000 to work with him every day and correct his atrocious shot? Because he's what...waiting for coach Casey to tell him how to shoot? Or because he's too busy playing video games?

            Every body says he has to bulk up. What was he doing from last April until this past November? Not spending time in the gym obviously. Does he realize it's on him to get better? If so, what has he improved from last year. If he doesn't change his head around he will be out of the league or a perennial 13th guy off the bench in 3 years.
            I can't disagree with you. He is on thin ice. We know he showed up in pretty bad shape, and as far as what e brings to the table today, he is replaceable for sure. At the same time Ed takes a lot of criticism and in a lot of ways he doesn't deserve it. He has shown too much potential for everyone to write him off or not give him the same leash which demar is given.

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            • #81
              BallaBalla wrote: View Post
              ...He has shown too much potential for everyone to write him off or not give him the same leash which demar is given.
              Here is where we disagree. Einstein said, "Nothing happens until something moves." That means potential means crap unless there is action. Davis hasn't shown a proclivity for taking action on his own yet. Every high achiever does.

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              • #82
                Puffer wrote: View Post
                Here is where we disagree. Einstein said, "Nothing happens until something moves." That means potential means crap unless there is action. Davis hasn't shown a proclivity for taking action on his own yet. Every high achiever does.
                He's pulling down double digit boards and playing great defense he is playing very well

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                • #83
                  Puffer wrote: View Post
                  Here is where we disagree. Einstein said, "Nothing happens until something moves." That means potential means crap unless there is action. Davis hasn't shown a proclivity for taking action on his own yet. Every high achiever does.
                  So, your comparing Ed Davis NBA career to an inanimate object? Nice, as noprops said double-double's aren't something to dismiss or compare to a rock that never moves.
                  -"You can’t run from me. I mean, my heart don’t bleed Kool-Aid."
                  -"“I ain’t no diva! I don’t have no blond hair, red hair. I’m Reggie Evans.”

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                  • #84
                    NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                    He's pulling down double digit boards and playing great defense he is playing very well
                    But you can't generalize like that and say that He has to be acting a certain way now because thats what successful people do. Sometimes it takes something for a person to click and realize the things that he needs to do be successful. Davis is just trying to do what has made him successful in college and seeing if it will translate.
                    Once he gets some more experience, and a consistent role with the team, he will be a great player.

                    Mark my words, if we lump him in with all the other crap players we have had and ship him off we will regret it.

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                    • #85
                      BallaBalla wrote: View Post
                      But you can't generalize like that and say that He has to be acting a certain way now because thats what successful people do. Sometimes it takes something for a person to click and realize the things that he needs to do be successful....
                      Actually I CAN generalize like that. The simplest way to be successful is to model success i.e. find others that have been successful and follow their example. One characteristic of almost all long term, successful NBA players has been to put in the work during the off-season, and to work on weak parts of their games. I absolutely agree that "Sometimes it takes something for a person to click and realize the things that he needs to do be successful." so far it doesn't seem to have happened for Ed. I'm not saying it won't, I'm saying that so far it hasn't.

                      He has talent. He has potential. The last few games have shown that. But his career so far has shown that he doesn't put in the work, and if he doesn't get his minutes he tends to let his effort level drop. I don't want players like that on any team I am a fan of. I want guys who are willing to put in some consistent effort for their multi-million dollar payrolls.

                      I worked in a corporate and unionised world where people thought they should get promotions or opportunities because they had "put in the time" as opposed to going out on their own time, learning skills and then demonstrating they could actually DO the job they wanted to be hired for. To me, Davis is like that guy. Full of entitlement. "I played hard three games in a row Coach. Why'd you pull my ass just because I coasted in the second quarter?" or "I've got a nice little hook from six feet out. Why should I work on my foul shot?"

                      I really hope he gets it. I hope he gets it while a member of the Raptors. But if he doesn't understand yet, with all the trainers, coaches, veteran players around him that he has now. And all the examples of NBA "could have beens" that flame out every year. And three D-Leaguers right under his nose, including a guy who spent 7 years in the equivalent of Basketball purgatory, then I wonder if he really will. I hope I am wrong about him. Maybe he's worth another season. But maybe it's time to move on.

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                      • #86
                        Puffer wrote: View Post
                        Actually I CAN generalize like that. The simplest way to be successful is to model success i.e. find others that have been successful and follow their example. One characteristic of almost all long term, successful NBA players has been to put in the work during the off-season, and to work on weak parts of their games. I absolutely agree that "Sometimes it takes something for a person to click and realize the things that he needs to do be successful." so far it doesn't seem to have happened for Ed. I'm not saying it won't, I'm saying that so far it hasn't.

                        He has talent. He has potential. The last few games have shown that. But his career so far has shown that he doesn't put in the work, and if he doesn't get his minutes he tends to let his effort level drop. I don't want players like that on any team I am a fan of. I want guys who are willing to put in some consistent effort for their multi-million dollar payrolls.

                        I worked in a corporate and unionised world where people thought they should get promotions or opportunities because they had "put in the time" as opposed to going out on their own time, learning skills and then demonstrating they could actually DO the job they wanted to be hired for. To me, Davis is like that guy. Full of entitlement. "I played hard three games in a row Coach. Why'd you pull my ass just because I coasted in the second quarter?" or "I've got a nice little hook from six feet out. Why should I work on my foul shot?"

                        I really hope he gets it. I hope he gets it while a member of the Raptors. But if he doesn't understand yet, with all the trainers, coaches, veteran players around him that he has now. And all the examples of NBA "could have beens" that flame out every year. And three D-Leaguers right under his nose, including a guy who spent 7 years in the equivalent of Basketball purgatory, then I wonder if he really will. I hope I am wrong about him. Maybe he's worth another season. But maybe it's time to move on.

                        That brings up an interesting question (well, at least to me):

                        Do you think Colangelo was crafty enough to bring in a 29 year old, many seasons removed from NBA veteran to give the young guys a perspective on what could happen or will happen if they don't put the work in or as an insight in to how easy it is to be in or out of the league as a fringe NBA player?

                        It most likely wasn't the intent but I'm sure having those guys around would offer a unique perspective to guys like DeRozan, JJ, Davis, and Bayless - if they took the time to listen to their experiences that is.

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                        • #87
                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          That brings up an interesting question (well, at least to me):

                          Do you think Colangelo was crafty enough to bring in a 29 year old, many seasons removed from NBA veteran to give the young guys a perspective on what could happen or will happen if they don't put the work in or as an insight in to how easy it is to be in or out of the league as a fringe NBA player?

                          It most likely wasn't the intent but I'm sure having those guys around would offer a unique perspective to guys like DeRozan, JJ, Davis, and Bayless - if they took the time to listen to their experiences that is.
                          Might be giving BC too much credit, but there is no denying that the lesson is there to be learned, if the young fella's are open to learning.

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                          • #88
                            should bring in jyd's brother.

                            some asshole broke his leg during a high school game, when scouts were there...now he's a motivational speaker.
                            If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                            Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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                            • #89
                              Puffer wrote: View Post
                              Might be giving BC too much credit, but there is no denying that the lesson is there to be learned, if the young fella's are open to learning.
                              +1

                              BC brought in useless veterans like Carter and Rasual Butler. The D-leaguers were merely replacements. They have filled in admirably and brought in good attitude and work ethic with them. The lesson is very much there to be learned for someone with more brains than JJ. If anything BC was at fault in the first place to bring in garbage players who didnt show up and were unfit for a NBA team. No wonder JJ thinks he is worthy of a starting spot. Thank god we have a strong coach who is not afraid to take tough decisions if he thinks its the right one.

                              Not giving up on Ed Davis yet. I don't think his problem is a sense of entitlement.

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                              • #90
                                Puffer wrote: View Post
                                Might be giving BC too much credit, but there is no denying that the lesson is there to be learned, if the young fella's are open to learning.
                                No doubt. It was something that came to mind reading your post. I think many young NBA players think the good times will never end. For example, do you think last year Julian Wright thought he would be out of the league this year?

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