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  • #91
    Casey is a great coach but great coaches can lose a lot of games when they don't have talent. Pat Riley is a perfect example of one when he coached the Heat. Despite the Bobcats record breaking season they had this year, Paul Silas is also a very good coach.

    I think a good coach/culture is just a small part of what makes a championship caliber team. The most important quality is talent however and a top 5 pick would give you the best opportunity to get one, especially if the team has always had a challenge in acquiring top end free agents.

    Comment


    • #92
      CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
      Knowing that a top-5 pick in the draft is perhaps the most significant way of improving a team, yet not rooting for what is the best opportunity of ensuring a top-5 pick, is what makes being a fan and contemplating 'tanking' such a conundrum.

      Coaching is important. Culture change is important. In the NBA, especially, talent is king. Without talent, the rest is only effective if your team's goal is to be content competing for the 8th playoff spot year in and year out.

      1) The best way to improve a team and significantly turnaround a franchise is by drafting a stud player, which is much more likely with a top-5 (or top 2/3) draft pick.

      2) The best way to improve a team's culture and identity, is by winning. Winning begets winning. Winning improves team morale, which in term improves team chemistry.

      3) Winning and improving team culture/identity, in addition to having respected management and coaching staffs, together is what will lure big time free agents. Also, having young superstar type players (aka: franchise cornerstones drafted in the top-5 of a draft) is another proven way of attracting free agents.

      I am a fan of the Raptors and have been since it was announced that the city would get a franchise. I submitted name ideas for the franchise (and no, "Raptors" was most definitely one I submitted). I understand the game, the league and the business of professional sports. I will always be a Raptors fan, but I cringe at the argument that being a fan and supporting tanking is a black & white issue, because it is not. From the beginning of the season, I was rooting for the Raptors and quietly optimistic of sneaking into the playoffs in a weak Eastern conference. Once the wheels fell off and reality set in, I was able to switch gears and understand what was in the best long-term interests of this franchise, which I believe begins in drafting one of the top picks in this year's draft. I was never rooting for the Raptors to lose, or rooting for tanking; I was rooting for the Raptors to be the best possible Raptors team next season and beyond, and I was able to take emotion out of the equation and realize that rooting for a top-5 pick WAS rooting for the Raptors. I never wanted the coaching staff or players to quit, never ever. However, I was rooting for more ping-pong balls and am now rooting for luck in the lottery. I am not ashamed of that and believe it is in the best interest of building the best possible Raptors team for next season and beyond, which I feel makes me an optimistic, realist sort of fan. I don't judge my fellow Raptor fans and appreciate varying opinions on all things Raptors (which is why I love RR!); just don't question whether I am a true, loyal fan, simply because I place such high value on a top-5 pick in this year's draft and hope like hell the Raps are lucky enough to land one.

      Sorry for the Friday rant... playoffs next season for the Raptors!
      For the record I was all for losing with fighting as much as we could. And for me it is very different from tanking.

      Be confident. Top 10 pick in this draft will be sweet. And as for a top 5 pick, don't forget we have one in Jonas. Until someone proves me wrong, he could be our superstar.

      Comment


      • #93
        CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
        Knowing that a top-5 pick in the draft is perhaps the most significant way of improving a team, yet not rooting for what is the best opportunity of ensuring a top-5 pick, is what makes being a fan and contemplating 'tanking' such a conundrum.

        Coaching is important. Culture change is important. In the NBA, especially, talent is king. Without talent, the rest is only effective if your team's goal is to be content competing for the 8th playoff spot year in and year out.

        1) The best way to improve a team and significantly turnaround a franchise is by drafting a stud player, which is much more likely with a top-5 (or top 2/3) draft pick.

        2) The best way to improve a team's culture and identity, is by winning. Winning begets winning. Winning improves team morale, which in term improves team chemistry.

        3) Winning and improving team culture/identity, in addition to having respected management and coaching staffs, together is what will lure big time free agents. Also, having young superstar type players (aka: franchise cornerstones drafted in the top-5 of a draft) is another proven way of attracting free agents.

        I am a fan of the Raptors and have been since it was announced that the city would get a franchise. I submitted name ideas for the franchise (and no, "Raptors" was most definitely one I submitted). I understand the game, the league and the business of professional sports. I will always be a Raptors fan, but I cringe at the argument that being a fan and supporting tanking is a black & white issue, because it is not. From the beginning of the season, I was rooting for the Raptors and quietly optimistic of sneaking into the playoffs in a weak Eastern conference. Once the wheels fell off and reality set in, I was able to switch gears and understand what was in the best long-term interests of this franchise, which I believe begins in drafting one of the top picks in this year's draft. I was never rooting for the Raptors to lose, or rooting for tanking; I was rooting for the Raptors to be the best possible Raptors team next season and beyond, and I was able to take emotion out of the equation and realize that rooting for a top-5 pick WAS rooting for the Raptors. I never wanted the coaching staff or players to quit, never ever. However, I was rooting for more ping-pong balls and am now rooting for luck in the lottery. I am not ashamed of that and believe it is in the best interest of building the best possible Raptors team for next season and beyond, which I feel makes me an optimistic, realist sort of fan. I don't judge my fellow Raptor fans and appreciate varying opinions on all things Raptors (which is why I love RR!); just don't question whether I am a true, loyal fan, simply because I place such high value on a top-5 pick in this year's draft and hope like hell the Raps are lucky enough to land one.

        Sorry for the Friday rant... playoffs next season for the Raptors!
        Great post.

        Comment


        • #94
          CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
          Knowing that a top-5 pick in the draft is perhaps the most significant way of improving a team, yet not rooting for what is the best opportunity of ensuring a top-5 pick, is what makes being a fan and contemplating 'tanking' such a conundrum.

          Coaching is important. Culture change is important. In the NBA, especially, talent is king. Without talent, the rest is only effective if your team's goal is to be content competing for the 8th playoff spot year in and year out.

          1) The best way to improve a team and significantly turnaround a franchise is by drafting a stud player, which is much more likely with a top-5 (or top 2/3) draft pick.

          2) The best way to improve a team's culture and identity, is by winning. Winning begets winning. Winning improves team morale, which in term improves team chemistry.

          3) Winning and improving team culture/identity, in addition to having respected management and coaching staffs, together is what will lure big time free agents. Also, having young superstar type players (aka: franchise cornerstones drafted in the top-5 of a draft) is another proven way of attracting free agents.

          I am a fan of the Raptors and have been since it was announced that the city would get a franchise. I submitted name ideas for the franchise (and no, "Raptors" was most definitely one I submitted). I understand the game, the league and the business of professional sports. I will always be a Raptors fan, but I cringe at the argument that being a fan and supporting tanking is a black & white issue, because it is not. From the beginning of the season, I was rooting for the Raptors and quietly optimistic of sneaking into the playoffs in a weak Eastern conference. Once the wheels fell off and reality set in, I was able to switch gears and understand what was in the best long-term interests of this franchise, which I believe begins in drafting one of the top picks in this year's draft. I was never rooting for the Raptors to lose, or rooting for tanking; I was rooting for the Raptors to be the best possible Raptors team next season and beyond, and I was able to take emotion out of the equation and realize that rooting for a top-5 pick WAS rooting for the Raptors. I never wanted the coaching staff or players to quit, never ever. However, I was rooting for more ping-pong balls and am now rooting for luck in the lottery. I am not ashamed of that and believe it is in the best interest of building the best possible Raptors team for next season and beyond, which I feel makes me an optimistic, realist sort of fan. I don't judge my fellow Raptor fans and appreciate varying opinions on all things Raptors (which is why I love RR!); just don't question whether I am a true, loyal fan, simply because I place such high value on a top-5 pick in this year's draft and hope like hell the Raps are lucky enough to land one.

          Sorry for the Friday rant... playoffs next season for the Raptors!
          Huge +1

          Comment


          • #95
            CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
            Knowing that a top-5 pick in the draft is perhaps the most significant way of improving a team, yet not rooting for what is the best opportunity of ensuring a top-5 pick, is what makes being a fan and contemplating 'tanking' such a conundrum.

            Coaching is important. Culture change is important. In the NBA, especially, talent is king. Without talent, the rest is only effective if your team's goal is to be content competing for the 8th playoff spot year in and year out.

            1) The best way to improve a team and significantly turnaround a franchise is by drafting a stud player, which is much more likely with a top-5 (or top 2/3) draft pick.

            2) The best way to improve a team's culture and identity, is by winning. Winning begets winning. Winning improves team morale, which in term improves team chemistry.

            3) Winning and improving team culture/identity, in addition to having respected management and coaching staffs, together is what will lure big time free agents. Also, having young superstar type players (aka: franchise cornerstones drafted in the top-5 of a draft) is another proven way of attracting free agents.

            I am a fan of the Raptors and have been since it was announced that the city would get a franchise. I submitted name ideas for the franchise (and no, "Raptors" was most definitely one I submitted). I understand the game, the league and the business of professional sports. I will always be a Raptors fan, but I cringe at the argument that being a fan and supporting tanking is a black & white issue, because it is not. From the beginning of the season, I was rooting for the Raptors and quietly optimistic of sneaking into the playoffs in a weak Eastern conference. Once the wheels fell off and reality set in, I was able to switch gears and understand what was in the best long-term interests of this franchise, which I believe begins in drafting one of the top picks in this year's draft. I was never rooting for the Raptors to lose, or rooting for tanking; I was rooting for the Raptors to be the best possible Raptors team next season and beyond, and I was able to take emotion out of the equation and realize that rooting for a top-5 pick WAS rooting for the Raptors. I never wanted the coaching staff or players to quit, never ever. However, I was rooting for more ping-pong balls and am now rooting for luck in the lottery. I am not ashamed of that and believe it is in the best interest of building the best possible Raptors team for next season and beyond, which I feel makes me an optimistic, realist sort of fan. I don't judge my fellow Raptor fans and appreciate varying opinions on all things Raptors (which is why I love RR!); just don't question whether I am a true, loyal fan, simply because I place such high value on a top-5 pick in this year's draft and hope like hell the Raps are lucky enough to land one.

            Sorry for the Friday rant... playoffs next season for the Raptors!
            Nice post.

            It summarizes the feelings I had the last few weeks as well.

            Fingers crossed for luck on May 30.

            Comment


            • #96
              Where are the Moderators when you need em? this kid should be banned
              Last edited by mcHAPPY; Fri Apr 27, 2012, 05:45 PM. Reason: ignorant quote deleted

              Comment


              • #97
                NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                Where are the Moderators when you need em? this kid should be banned
                I must have missed this last night, NoProps. Apologies. It will be addressed.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  I must have missed this last night, NoProps. Apologies. It will be addressed.
                  it is quite alright. The law needs to be enforced!

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    I agree with CalgaryRapsFan that it's good that there's a variety of opinions and I totally agree with the fact that we need talent. We all want a winning franchise but differ in opinions of getting there. For all those that are bashing my posts I just want to mention a few things.

                    1) Look how OKC built their team. Do you think that any players would have wanted to play there say 5 years ago? Between 2007~2009 they drafted KD 2nd, Russ 4th and Harden 3rd - 3 straight years~ Was there a winning culture during those times?

                    2) Now let's look at the past champions history & the MVPs since the MJ era:
                    Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas
                    Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles
                    Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles
                    Paul Pierce, Boston
                    Tony Parker, San Antonio
                    Dwyane Wade, Miami Heat
                    Tim Duncan, San Antonio
                    Chauncey Billups, Detroit Pistons
                    Tim Duncan, San Antonio
                    Shaquille O'Neal, Los Angeles
                    Shaquille O'Neal, Los Angeles
                    Shaquille O'Neal, Los Angeles
                    Tim Duncan, San Antonio
                    Michael Jordan, Chicago
                    Michael Jordan, Chicago
                    Michael Jordan, Chicago
                    Hakeem Olajuwon, Houston
                    Hakeem Olajuwon, Houston
                    Michael Jordan, Chicago
                    Michael Jordan, Chicago
                    Michael Jordan, Chicago

                    If you look at the history (except for the Billups' Detroit team that defied logic) all of the teams had a top or couple of top draft picks or bought their way to the final by spending way into the luxury tax for years - more than anyone else eg. Dallas. Forgetting about the over-spenders, you can't tell me that if Kobe went to college he wouldn't have been a top pick. At that time teams were afraid to draft straight out of high school and even Kobe had Shaq for 3 rings and a stacked team for the other two. Also, euro drafting only got better recently. Who wanted to draft a euro player 10 or more years ago? The likes of Dirk, Parker, Gino would have all gone higher if they were drafted with today's scouts.

                    3) Going back to the way OKC built. They didn't have a Bargs type player when they were building the team. They drafted kids and told them to live and learn while they lost until more talent came - through the draft! Why are the Raptors trying to win now and rebuild? It's an oxy-moron. It might be too late to do this now but at the beginning of this year we should have gotten rid of Bargs, Calderon, Barbosa etc. I would include Demar too cause I don't have faith in him to lead a team in the future - more suited as a 6th man. We should have been picking up draft picks since the beginning of this year. You say we'll lose fans? Well, they'll come back once you build a team like OKC and they'll come back in droves.

                    So my point?
                    I'm only advocating tanking because management is doing a very poor job of trying to rebuild. I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE SHOULD INTENTIONALLY LOSE SEVERAL SEASONS!!! Just that if we're going to rebuild then trade the guys that other teams think will boost their lineups right now and pick up some future assets.

                    Even if this team is losing, as long as there's talent, excitement and hope then I'll keep watching. Right now I think we're on track to becoming another mediocre team. Unless we win the lottery~
                    Last edited by raptors2012; Fri Apr 27, 2012, 11:34 PM.

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