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Can you win a championship with Bargnani?

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  • #16
    The Lakers won a Championship with Adam Morrison and DJ Mbenga.

    Not to compare them, but I think you need rephrase the thread title to qualify what Bargs role would be on this 'Championship winning Team', as many have already stated.

    I remember people saying that Dallas will never win one if Dirk was their best and only option.
    Anythings Possible.

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    • #17
      Whether Bargnani's the number 1, 2 or 5 option isn't really a concern for me. Instead, if Bargnani is playing heavy minutes, it comes down to his defensive contributions. If Bargnani can stay on the floor without being a liability on the defensive end, then sure, a championship is possible.

      The playoffs, in a halfcourt set, is all about exploiting matchups. Good coaches will find the weakest defensive link, and milk it until you're forced to counter.

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      • #18
        Mediumcore wrote: View Post
        Yes we can win a championship with Bargs on the team if he's not the number one option. No we can't win a championship with Bargs if he's the number one option.

        More importantly (imo) a team built around Bargs is not a team which can sustain it's winning ways. There is something fundamentaly incorrect about building around a non franchise quality player.
        +1

        I know Bargs was playing well, but you can tell a franchise player when you see them. There are only a few in the league, and we have seen enough from him to know that he is not.
        Bargs will be most effective as a guy who is used as a mismatch offensively for particular matchups. If we had the luxury of one day bringing him off the bench as a 6th man that would be ideal. But to hang our hats on him on both ends of the floor, and running every play through him will never be. He is a great player, but he is a piece.

        I like the Dirk comparison because Bargs actually has a better all around skill set. He is a better shot blocker, he is faster, a better passer and can score in more ways. But that being said (and I know I'm going to catch some flack for this) Dirk was also just a piece. He was the closer, yes, but he filled one specific role of shot maker. He is not like Lebron or Kobe who can facilitate for other teammates, and change the course of the game defensively, he was just a shot maker. The rest of the team filled their roles as well, especially on the defensive end, and that's how they won.

        The same will be for the raps. We need to fill different holes we have as a team, and hopefully one day, Bargs will be in the position to take a guy one on one like Dirk did in the playoffs and hit a shot with a hand in his face. But besides that, we will need a more complete team than let's say, Miami or Orlando, to make the finals with Bargs as "the man".

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        • #19
          ceez wrote: View Post
          Feel free to move to the Bargnani oblivion thread, but i thought it was worth making a thread for.

          http://www.hoopsworld.com/raptors-a-...-with-bargnani

          article from hoopsworld, but i want to take it a step further. i think the raps can make the playoffs with Bargs, certainly, but what about a championship? I'm sure people will point to Dirk, and the strong supporting cast he needed to win it all, but Dirk's a superstar. Bargs hasn't even made a allstar game in the weak east. I'm not saying there's absolutely no way the raptors win with him, but when i really pause to think about it i don't know...

          Discuss.
          You can win a Championship with anybody. It all comes down to what their role is and who else is on the team. If the question is can the Raptors win with Bargnani being "the man" then I would probably say no. However, Bargnani would be an excellent sidekick to someone. Even here in Toronto.

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          • #20
            Yeah I really should have specified that, my bad.

            Can the raps win it all with Bargs as THE dude?
            @sweatpantsjer

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            • #21
              ceez wrote: View Post
              Yeah I really should have specified that, my bad.

              Can the raps win it all with Bargs as THE dude?
              Most likely not.

              LeBron couldn't do it as THE dude.

              Kobe couldn't make the playoffs in his PRIME following Shaq's departure.

              Took Dirk a long time and a lot of veteran help.

              Dwight Howard is unable to do it.

              Pierce/KG/Allen couldn't do it as THE dude.

              A lot of factors go in to winning and of 30 teams, only one will win each season.

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              • #22
                ceez wrote: View Post
                Yeah I really should have specified that, my bad.

                Can the raps win it all with Bargs as THE dude?
                OK, I'm changing my mind. Andrea can be the dude and the Raptors can still win it if they have at least four or five guys with comparable talent(note I'm not saying abilities) to Andrea. Think the Detroit Pistons of around eight years ago now. The Pistons showed they could do it with a handful of non-superstars who were all at least arguably borderline all-stars. That said, the stars aligned for them that year and they had a lot of luck. The Raptors need luck. That's been a sparse commodity in Toronto for close to decades, right? The Raptors are overdue for some luck.

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                • #23
                  Not a chance.

                  You win championships with elite talent in this league.

                  If Andrea is a part of the team like say Jason Terry was a scoring component of the Mavs last year of course it is possible to win a championship with him on your roster, but if you are asking him to play the Dirk role (alpha male) in that equation it won't happen.

                  Andrea Bargnani is not an elite player in the NBA and hasn't shown he will ever approach that level in the years he has been in the league. Lebron couldn't, Kobe couldn't and there are no comparisons with these players and Andrea.

                  And to those that feel it is possible, we might as well have done everything humany possible to keep Bosh if you feel that way no?

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                  • #24
                    To win a championship so many things have to fall in place that there is no way to answer with any degree of certainty one way or the other. As far as talent level goes he can contribute offensively but if he isn't efficient and he's throwing up over 15 shots for his 20 + it negates that offensive talent. On the other side of the ball there are lots of guys that are better so if the scoring is coming from elsewhere better defense wins championships. As far as being a veteran long time Raptor that is a positive to team chemistry I can't answer but we know that is another big part of championship teams.

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                    • #25
                      Considering Adam Morrison won two championships with the Lakers and that Adam Morrison was selected two spots after Andrea Bargnani, we can safely conclude the Raptors failed to draft the "difference maker".

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                      • #26
                        sleepz wrote: View Post
                        Not a chance.

                        You win championships with elite talent in this league.

                        If Andrea is a part of the team like say Jason Terry was a scoring component of the Mavs last year of course it is possible to win a championship with him on your roster, but if you are asking him to play the Dirk role (alpha male) in that equation it won't happen.

                        Andrea Bargnani is not an elite player in the NBA and hasn't shown he will ever approach that level in the years he has been in the league. Lebron couldn't, Kobe couldn't and there are no comparisons with these players and Andrea.

                        And to those that feel it is possible, we might as well have done everything humany possible to keep Bosh if you feel that way no?
                        If you put him out there with Big Ben, Prince, Rip and Billups in their prime year you don't think they would have a legit shot at winning it all? I think they would. In such a scenario Bargnani would be the most talented scorer and so he'd be their go to guy on offense.

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                        • #27
                          Hugmenot wrote: View Post
                          Considering Adam Morrison won two championships with the Lakers and that Adam Morrison was selected two spots after Andrea Bargnani, we can safely conclude the Raptors failed to draft the "difference maker".
                          Well said.

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                          • #28
                            [B wrote:
                            Apollo;129856]If you put him out there with Big Ben, Prince, Rip and Billups in their prime year you don't think they would have a legit shot at winning it all? I think they would. In such a scenario Bargnani would be the most talented scorer and so he'd be their go to guy on offense[/B].
                            That's the point exactly. We have to recognize what Bargs is, and build from there. Its what we failed to do with Bosh. BC failed in putting players around him that would help him do what he does best, which is fill a role really well.

                            So Bargs will be the most effective scorer most nights because he is a matchup problem for nearly every team. Now, lets get a 5 who can anchor the defense, some outside shooters who can create off the dribble, and one player who can come off the bench and make a difference ala james posey or lamar odom (in his good days). If we do that we will be a really good team.

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                            • #29
                              BallaBalla wrote: View Post
                              That's the point exactly. We have to recognize what Bargs is, and build from there. Its what we failed to do with Bosh. BC failed in putting players around him that would help him do what he does best, which is fill a role really well.

                              So Bargs will be the most effective scorer most nights because he is a matchup problem for nearly every team. Now, lets get a 5 who can anchor the defense, some outside shooters who can create off the dribble, and one player who can come off the bench and make a difference ala james posey or lamar odom (in his good days). If we do that we will be a really good team.
                              Isn't this currently what is going on?

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                              • #30
                                Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
                                Kind of odd to think that a team couldn't win a ring with Bargnani on it - what if the HEAT traded Bosh for Bargnani, can you see the HEAT winning a ring with Bargnani? For sure.
                                Very interesting thought. I wonder as well what would have happened if they would have traded for bargnani instead of bosh and then signed or traded for a hard nosed, rebounding machine C like a chandler.
                                They could have used AB to come off the bench and be an instant scoring threat and we all know heat's bench was shit last year.
                                Another thing miami struggled with last year was height (or lack thereof). AB could have been able to help with it, even though there is not much height difference between bosh and AB, but signing AB would have allowed them to go after a better C than anthony (who was undersized).
                                Last edited by hotfuzz; Thu May 10, 2012, 12:37 PM.
                                "Stay steamy"

                                - Kobe

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