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The case for Rudy Gay to the Raptors: Heisley speaks to rumours (277)

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  • Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Hopefully Scott Machado is available with one of our 2nd round picks as our [potential] PG of the future.
    +1

    My gut tells me he's going to be big!

    Comment


    • LBF wrote: View Post
      Ok, but, I don't think we are going to be any worse than we are now.

      How many guys potentially better than Gay are we drafting with the 8th overall pick.

      You typed that not all Are winners. But, have good young talent.

      Valanciunas, Derozan, Davis.

      19,22,24 or something around those ages.

      You have to take some risks before you get anywhere. All those teams have.
      I agree with you regarding the 8th pick, but you don't know that for sure, and what if you get a plyer that is marginally underneath Gay in regards to production and performance and fits Casey's system and is a player he has the chance to mould from day 1? Considering one is on a rookie deal and the other is owed big money over the next 3-4 years I think we take the second option.

      JV, DeRozan, Davis. All young players, all with potential, however the jury is out on all of them. If any of them had of shown immediate ability they would be cornerstones instead of possible trade bait, but right now outside of JV (who won't be going anywhere but we don't know how good he will be yet as much as we would all like him to be great) Davis and Derozan have much to prove.

      Comment


      • Puffer wrote: View Post
        If the Raps lose enough for the next three years to get significant draft picks:

        1. Colangelo is gone
        2. Attendance at the games will be worse
        3. Even TV fans like yourself won't bother watching, so ad revenue will be down
        4. There is no guarantee that the picks will be worthwhile. See how many franchise altering picks happen every year.
        5. You will embed a losing mentality into the team and it's reputation. What good free agents will you be able to attract?
        6. Casey will leave in disgust.
        7. The leagues penalty luxury tax will be far worse, precluding the ability to spend money.

        The time is now. If not Gay, then someone else of similar or better calibre. And there aren't a lot available that would give the Raps the same options and flexibility.
        1. Good riddance. It certainly took long enough!
        2. Maybe, but Raps have traditionally had loyal fan base and good attendance no matter how bad the team.
        3. I don't watch regularly now and thats only because I see no plan. I'd buy into the slow rebuilding if I'm seeing good young players coming in and developing the right way.
        4. Agreed, but there are no guarantees in life period (with trades or FA sigings for that matter). I do know that when you hit on a draft pick it can change your franchsie dramatically overnight. That what everyone is hoping with JV no?
        5. Losing mentality can be changed at anytime through winning. When you have a good enough team that can be altered because players know they are going to win and have the talent to do so night in and night out We've never been able to atract good FA's anyway. Most teams outside of NY and LA have this issue.
        6. We don't know what Casey will do. Have you any idea how long it took him to get another shot coaching again with this job?
        7. Easier to manage players and decisions on rookie deals. 7 years to plan appropriately.

        I agree the time is now. It's time to admit the talent base is weak and you need to re-tool through the draft and low salary acquisitions.

        Comment


        • Miekenstien wrote: View Post
          that's right. no one was saying anything bad about carter but then the wheels fell off. i don't want to be dependent on anyone player like that again. i think that bargs has elite offensive abilities.

          i also don't care about wasting players careers, but they do. no one is going to want to stay here or try hard when they are here if it is always "we just need to wait for a player who can play". i would much rather take a shot with what we have and then blow it up again later. you don't know until you try.
          The wheels fell off because Grunwald went the route of overpaying the JYD's of the world to stay instead of replenishing the talent through the draft.

          Other teams have taken this approach (drafting) so why should we be worried about it here? We have a good coach, great city and fanbase. We just have no patience.

          Comment


          • planetmars wrote: View Post
            Here is the actual Q/A from Ford:
            http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/44099




            I like the idea of luring Nash by nabbing Gay.. would make a pretty formidable line up. Not sure how Bargs/Calderon fit in Memphis though, especially if Memphis wants cap space.
            Thanks for getting the actual quote. I had to step out for an hour or so and was in a rush when it popped up on Twitter.

            Kleiza and Amir are also vets.

            Kleiza is my favourite current Raptor and I'd hate for him to go but if it brought back Gay, I'll pack his bags.

            There is also the consideration of another team(s) coming in to play.

            Comment


            • sleepz wrote: View Post

              I agree the time is now. It's time to admit the talent base is weak and you need to re-tool through the draft and low salary acquisitions.
              Unfortunately, the die has been cast. I expect them to do everything in their power to have a playoff team next year. BC and Casey have said they want to win next year. I take them at their word.

              Again, I don't have a huge issue with this if: one, you are prepared to do whatever it takes to try and become a ECF contender and, two, you are close enough to make that plan feasible. With Raps, they are not even close (problem #1) and you know that they won't actually go 100% in the win now direction (problem #2), rather they will do it half-assed and end up back where they are right now in 2 years. Then we'll have another 5 year rebuild.

              What I really don't get about fans getting on board with this is it's exactly the same plan from 6 years ago. The only difference this time is that the best player on the team isn't as good as the best player then. Look what that plan achieved. We're happy with the next 6 years looking like the past 6? We're all on board for doing the same thing? It's not like you have go back 40 years to see how this plays out. We just watched it. With the same GM. And the results are going to be the same. Madness.

              Comment


              • slaw wrote: View Post
                Unfortunately, the die has been cast. I expect them to do everything in their power to have a playoff team next year. BC and Casey have said they want to win next year. I take them at their word.

                Again, I don't have a huge issue with this if: one, you are prepared to do whatever it takes to try and become a ECF contender and, two, you are close enough to make that plan feasible. With Raps, they are not even close (problem #1) and you know that they won't actually go 100% in the win now direction (problem #2), rather they will do it half-assed and end up back where they are right now in 2 years. Then we'll have another 5 year rebuild.

                What I really don't get about fans getting on board with this is it's exactly the same plan from 6 years ago. The only difference this time is that the best player on the team isn't as good as the best player then. Look what that plan achieved. We're happy with the next 6 years looking like the past 6? We're all on board for doing the same thing? It's not like you have go back 40 years to see how this plays out. We just watched it. With the same GM. And the results are going to be the same. Madness.
                If Gay is obtained, the argument can be made that he would be Toronto's best player since Carter. Whether Bargnani stays or goes, Gay appears to be the type of talent one can build a team around.

                Comment


                • slaw wrote: View Post
                  Unfortunately, the die has been cast. I expect them to do everything in their power to have a playoff team next year. BC and Casey have said they want to win next year. I take them at their word.

                  Again, I don't have a huge issue with this if: one, you are prepared to do whatever it takes to try and become a ECF contender and, two, you are close enough to make that plan feasible. With Raps, they are not even close (problem #1) and you know that they won't actually go 100% in the win now direction (problem #2), rather they will do it half-assed and end up back where they are right now in 2 years. Then we'll have another 5 year rebuild.

                  What I really don't get about fans getting on board with this is it's exactly the same plan from 6 years ago. The only difference this time is that the best player on the team isn't as good as the best player then. Look what that plan achieved. We're happy with the next 6 years looking like the past 6? We're all on board for doing the same thing? It's not like you have go back 40 years to see how this plays out. We just watched it. With the same GM. And the results are going to be the same. Madness.
                  Assuming Gay is acquired, that last paragraph will be an interesting discussion once we see what the roster looks like in mid-July and before the season starts.

                  Comment


                  • 8th pick + Indiana's second rounder + Jose Calderon for Rudy Gay. Would they do it? who else should we add?

                    Comment


                    • Wow, the talks seem to be heating up, I'm actually seeing plenty of sites saying that "Gay is on the Raps' radar".

                      Unlike 95% of this forum, this trade might actually be a reality. And if it does happen, well then it seems like we finally have THAT GUY. FUCK. YES.

                      P.S., I don't care what anyone says... I'm buying a Gay jersey!

                      Comment


                      • sleepz wrote: View Post
                        I agree with you regarding the 8th pick, but you don't know that for sure, and what if you get a plyer that is marginally underneath Gay in regards to production and performance and fits Casey's system and is a player he has the chance to mould from day 1? Considering one is on a rookie deal and the other is owed big money over the next 3-4 years I think we take the second option.

                        JV, DeRozan, Davis. All young players, all with potential, however the jury is out on all of them. If any of them had of shown immediate ability they would be cornerstones instead of possible trade bait, but right now outside of JV (who won't be going anywhere but we don't know how good he will be yet as much as we would all like him to be great) Davis and Derozan have much to prove.
                        Alright, were pretty much at a stand still with this dialogue.

                        We both make solid points. However, consider Gay is already locked up and only bargnani is locked up on our team. I say take a chance on an already secure guy so you dont have to take a chance on another or worry about over paying and such.
                        If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                        Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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                        • Gay+Bargnani+DeMar+Valanciunas+NASH!=Championship contenders

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                          • I can't see Memphis having interest in Bargnani, considering they have Gasol/Randolph. I could see Calderon being moved in a three-team deal. Amir doesn't make sense for either team if Davis is also included, since Memphis wouldn't need two backup PF (unless they see one of them being capable of backing up the C spot). Amir would make sense if the young player is DeRozan instead of Davis though, along with the #8 pick.

                            Comment


                            • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                              I can't see Memphis having interest in Bargnani, considering they have Gasol/Randolph. I could see Calderon being moved in a three-team deal. Amir doesn't make sense for either team if Davis is also included, since Memphis wouldn't need two backup PF (unless they see one of them being capable of backing up the C spot). Amir would make sense if the young player is DeRozan instead of Davis though, along with the #8 pick.
                              I read a comment by a Memphis fan who said keep Ed Davis and include DeRozan. The rationale was they could resign Speights and Arthur (so they were set at 4/5) but they need help on the wings.

                              I would trade DeRozan to get Gay but I'd want #25 in return and the trade/free agent search immediately turns to SGs.

                              Comment


                              • Prime wrote: View Post
                                Gay has never lived up to being a #1 option in Memphis. I'm not confident he will fare better here.
                                completely agree

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