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Take on Okafor or Ariza's contract and get the 10th picK

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  • #31
    If the rumors are true about NO dangling the #10 with a team taking on Ariza I hope BC is on the phone seeing what it would take to swing a deal. If it's just a salary dump I'd love to see a move for Ariza and #10 for Forbes and #37 and or #57.

    Then trade #8, #10, JJ and Ed or Amir for Gay and #25.

    Would leave a line up of:

    Jose/Bayless/Wroten
    Demar/Ariza
    Gay/Kleiza
    Dre/Ed or Amir
    JV/Gray

    Use 25 on Marquis Teague or Tony Wroten, resign Gray and Bayless and I think they would be fine filing out the roster on 1 year deals. Would be an athletic team with plenty of players still with upside and room to improve.

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    • #32
      Did Ariza not spurn the Raps in his FA year and sign with the Rockets? Wonder if he'd be a happy camper here. His salary is somewhat manageable approx. 7.3, 7.7 for the next 2 years. Wonder if we could coax one of their younger players (Thomas or Henry) to be added. $15 mil for the 10th seems a bit steep.

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      • #33
        Wow, people complain about how much we're paying Amir, and then want to take on Ariza?

        Trevor Ariza at his salary should only be an option if Toronto has filled the rest of the big holes and is competing for a title. Now, if taking him on also brings the #10 pick, that's something to consider, but again only IF the other pieces are already in place (eg. Gay is here, the #8 is gone along with Davis or Derozan and they need to backfill through the draft at a vacated position).
        Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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        • #34
          Bendit wrote: View Post
          Did Ariza not spurn the Raps in his FA year and sign with the Rockets? Wonder if he'd be a happy camper here. His salary is somewhat manageable approx. 7.3, 7.7 for the next 2 years. Wonder if we could coax one of their younger players (Thomas or Henry) to be added. $15 mil for the 10th seems a bit steep.
          Or maybe he is so unhappy he doesn't use his player option after next season, meaning Toronto would only be paying him for a single season!

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          • #35
            jimmie wrote: View Post
            Wow, people complain about how much we're paying Amir, and then want to take on Ariza?

            Trevor Ariza at his salary should only be an option if Toronto has filled the rest of the big holes and is competing for a title. Now, if taking him on also brings the #10 pick, that's something to consider, but again only IF the other pieces are already in place (eg. Gay is here, the #8 is gone along with Davis or Derozan and they need to backfill through the draft at a vacated position).
            If a trade for Gay goes down and Toronto gets the #25 pick in return, the Raps could try to do the same thing as NO is doing, but with Amir & #25... Ariza's salary is much better than Amir's in the long-term. I think Amir could be a quality backup PF for a lot of teams, especially with the #25 pick as a 'thank you'.

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            • #36
              tbihis wrote: View Post
              Isnt JJ our defensive specialist?

              Isnt JJ a cheaper and younger version of ariza?

              just curious ceez, why do you do one line per post?
              Two reasons I can think of

              1. He is mobile

              2. He doesn't need to say much more to get his point across or he's very generic.
              If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

              Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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              • #37
                Or he's a minimalist by nature.

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                • #38
                  LBF wrote: View Post
                  Two reasons I can think of

                  1. He is mobile

                  2. He doesn't need to say much more to get his point across or he's very generic.
                  hehehe makes sense.

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                  • #39
                    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                    If a trade for Gay goes down and Toronto gets the #25 pick in return, the Raps could try to do the same thing as NO is doing, but with Amir & #25... Ariza's salary is much better than Amir's in the long-term. I think Amir could be a quality backup PF for a lot of teams, especially with the #25 pick as a 'thank you'.
                    I disagree. Amir Johnson is a smart hardworking player who would still be happy if he rarely saw the rock. Ariza is not that. Amir is a better player than Ariza in my opinion.

                    The Rockets got sick of him really fast after giving him a lot of money. Now another team wants to be rid of him bad enough to cough up a top ten lotto pick. This isn't raising alarms?

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                    • #40
                      Apollo wrote: View Post
                      I disagree. Amir Johnson is a smart hardworking player who would still be happy if he rarely saw the rock. Ariza is not that. Amir is a better player than Ariza in my opinion.

                      The Rockets got sick of him really fast after giving him a lot of money. Now another team wants to be rid of him bad enough to cough up a top ten lotto pick. This isn't raising alarms?
                      Very good point.

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                      • #41
                        Apollo wrote: View Post
                        I disagree. Amir Johnson is a smart hardworking player who would still be happy if he rarely saw the rock. Ariza is not that. Amir is a better player than Ariza in my opinion.

                        The Rockets got sick of him really fast after giving him a lot of money. Now another team wants to be rid of him bad enough to cough up a top ten lotto pick. This isn't raising alarms?
                        Precisely. And I think the whole premise of this trade - to get the #10 pick - is off-base. First of all, the #8 may not even be included in a Gay trade. Memphis is trying to dump salary desperately; Toronto is in the driver's seat, they don't need to sweeten the pot. Ed Davis and stuff might even get it done, who knows?

                        Even if they DO send the 8 to Memphis, they still don't need another lottery pick. They'll have Gay, and ostensibly an excellent shot at Nash or Dragic/Lowry. Their starting 5 would be set without really hurting their existing roster (whoever goes in the Gay trade). They probably still retain 2-2nd round picks... Why would you want to take on another 7M in salary for a guy who does you absolutely no good? He's a chucker with an over-inflated sense of his game, and any minutes he plays are taking away from developing someone else.
                        Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                        • #42
                          Just do it.......take on Ariza's contract and get the no. 10 pick as well. I think it would be a great deal for the Raptor's and they could take 2 quality players from the draft.

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                          • #43
                            Here's my 10 cents.


                            Name Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
                            Trevor Ariza 26 NOH NBA 41 41 1350 4.5 10.7 0.417 0.8 2.3 0.333 2.1 2.7 0.775 1.1 4.6 5.7 3.6 1.8 0.7 2 1.9 11.8
                            Nicolas Batum 23 POR NBA 59 34 1791 5.8 12.9 0.451 2.2 5.5 0.391 2.7 3.2 0.836 1.6 3.8 5.4 1.7 1.1 1.2 1.8 2.1 16.4
                            James Johnson 24 TOR NBA 62 40 1561 5.4 11.9 0.45 0.4 1.4 0.317 1.9 2.7 0.704 1.7 5 6.7 2.8 1.6 1.9 2.3 4.1 13.1


                            Name Age Tm Lg G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
                            Trevor Ariza 26 NOH NBA 41 1350 14.2 0.496 0.453 3.7 15.1 9.5 16.8 2.8 1.5 14.5 18.4 100 103 0.5 1.7 2.2 0.078
                            Nicolas Batum 23 POR NBA 59 1791 17.3 0.575 0.534 5.2 12.6 8.8 7.9 1.7 2.6 11.2 20.5 112 107 3.3 1.4 4.8 0.127
                            James Johnson 24 TOR NBA 62 1561 14.5 0.498 0.468 5.6 16.2 11 13.9 2.4 4.4 15.1 20.2 97 100 0.1 2.5 2.6 0.079






                            I think it really depends on what you can get/do with the number 10 pick. The above table compares Batum, Ariza, and JJ, based on per36 and advanced metrics.

                            Batum is WAAAAY better offensively and in overall advanced stats (per, and ws/48). JJ and Ariza, are better rebounders and defenders and passers.


                            After look at these stats, I'm not sure I still like Batum at 12+ mil/year

                            JJ and Ariza are pretty much even in every category, although JJ has a slight edge in almost every category except passing and steals.

                            JJ seems to win a heads up battle against Ariza, based on similar production, cheaper contract and younger age. However, we should keep in mind two factors.

                            1) Ariza and Batum actually averaged about 36 minutes per game whereas as JJ only averaged about 26. We need to keep this in mind when we look at his per/36 stats. Do we think that he can play 36 minutes a game and be as productive as his current per36 stats imply? Casey seemed to feel the need to yank JJ on a regular basis and even put him in the dog house for a stretch after the all-star break. I'm not sure he has the mental component necessary to deliver consistently if giving more minutes.

                            2) JJ will be a free agent at the end of next season with a QO of 3.9mil, what kind of contract do you think he will be offered? JJ at 2.9mil a season is a much better deal than Ariza at 7mil. But does JJ give you better value if he is making 4-5mil?

                            if you're looking at JJ vs. Ariza straight up then I probably say stick with JJ, however getting Ariza and the number 10 for me makes it worth it. If Ariza had 3 or 4 years left I'd say no, but he only has 2 years left and the second is a player option which he may or may not exercise, and even if he does he is an expiring which may be used as trade bait.

                            If we were to take on Ariza using our TPE we then have a lot of tradeable pieces.

                            I do think it is a red flag that NO is trying to trade Ariza, but when you look at their contracts Okafor and Ariza are the only contracts that would still be on the books after next season (except of 2.5 for Jason Smith), and are leftovers from Chris Paul days. Although it does not look good on Ariza it seems to be more of an issue of regarding cleaning house for the new ownership and moving past the Chris Paul era.


                            I definitely look at taking on Ariza, with the understanding that I could provide more tradeable value down the road.
                            "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                            "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                            "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                            • #44
                              ezz_bee wrote: View Post
                              Here's my 10 cents.


                              Name Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
                              Trevor Ariza 26 NOH NBA 41 41 1350 4.5 10.7 0.417 0.8 2.3 0.333 2.1 2.7 0.775 1.1 4.6 5.7 3.6 1.8 0.7 2 1.9 11.8
                              Nicolas Batum 23 POR NBA 59 34 1791 5.8 12.9 0.451 2.2 5.5 0.391 2.7 3.2 0.836 1.6 3.8 5.4 1.7 1.1 1.2 1.8 2.1 16.4
                              James Johnson 24 TOR NBA 62 40 1561 5.4 11.9 0.45 0.4 1.4 0.317 1.9 2.7 0.704 1.7 5 6.7 2.8 1.6 1.9 2.3 4.1 13.1


                              Name Age Tm Lg G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
                              Trevor Ariza 26 NOH NBA 41 1350 14.2 0.496 0.453 3.7 15.1 9.5 16.8 2.8 1.5 14.5 18.4 100 103 0.5 1.7 2.2 0.078
                              Nicolas Batum 23 POR NBA 59 1791 17.3 0.575 0.534 5.2 12.6 8.8 7.9 1.7 2.6 11.2 20.5 112 107 3.3 1.4 4.8 0.127
                              James Johnson 24 TOR NBA 62 1561 14.5 0.498 0.468 5.6 16.2 11 13.9 2.4 4.4 15.1 20.2 97 100 0.1 2.5 2.6 0.079






                              I think it really depends on what you can get/do with the number 10 pick. The above table compares Batum, Ariza, and JJ, based on per36 and advanced metrics.

                              Batum is WAAAAY better offensively and in overall advanced stats (per, and ws/48). JJ and Ariza, are better rebounders and defenders and passers.


                              After look at these stats, I'm not sure I still like Batum at 12+ mil/year

                              JJ and Ariza are pretty much even in every category, although JJ has a slight edge in almost every category except passing and steals.

                              JJ seems to win a heads up battle against Ariza, based on similar production, cheaper contract and younger age. However, we should keep in mind two factors.

                              1) Ariza and Batum actually averaged about 36 minutes per game whereas as JJ only averaged about 26. We need to keep this in mind when we look at his per/36 stats. Do we think that he can play 36 minutes a game and be as productive as his current per36 stats imply? Casey seemed to feel the need to yank JJ on a regular basis and even put him in the dog house for a stretch after the all-star break. I'm not sure he has the mental component necessary to deliver consistently if giving more minutes.

                              2) JJ will be a free agent at the end of next season with a QO of 3.9mil, what kind of contract do you think he will be offered? JJ at 2.9mil a season is a much better deal than Ariza at 7mil. But does JJ give you better value if he is making 4-5mil?

                              if you're looking at JJ vs. Ariza straight up then I probably say stick with JJ, however getting Ariza and the number 10 for me makes it worth it. If Ariza had 3 or 4 years left I'd say no, but he only has 2 years left and the second is a player option which he may or may not exercise, and even if he does he is an expiring which may be used as trade bait.

                              If we were to take on Ariza using our TPE we then have a lot of tradeable pieces.

                              I do think it is a red flag that NO is trying to trade Ariza, but when you look at their contracts Okafor and Ariza are the only contracts that would still be on the books after next season (except of 2.5 for Jason Smith), and are leftovers from Chris Paul days. Although it does not look good on Ariza it seems to be more of an issue of regarding cleaning house for the new ownership and moving past the Chris Paul era.


                              I definitely look at taking on Ariza, with the understanding that I could provide more tradeable value down the road.
                              I am in support of a trade for Ariza/#10, but only as a secondary move after trading for Gay.

                              1) Davis & JJ & #8 & #37 --> Gay & #25
                              2) TPE & #56 --> Ariza & #10

                              - Gay replaces JJ at starting SF
                              - Davis is dumped to clear logjam at PF, establishing Amir as backup PF
                              - Ariza is added as defensive stopper at backup SF/SG, contract is up after 1 or 2 seasons (player option for 2nd)
                              - #8 drops down two spots to #10 (could conceivably get the same player anyway)
                              - #37 & #56 are used to acquire #25 pick

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                              • #45
                                you could just say screw it to gay all together and package the 8th and 10th together and either try to get one of the top 2 picks or go after derrick williams or something.
                                If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                                Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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