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So was plan B better than plan A?

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  • #76
    A top 5 pick is a huge deal. A 14th pick, not so much.

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    • #77
      mountio wrote: View Post
      I think its interesting that almost no one talks about the first rounder that we had to give up to get Lowry. Thats a steep price and the key difference between the Nash and Lowry options. On their own, for sure, Lowry is a better option (even taking into account that we only have him for two years).
      For all the people who have been trumpting building through the draft and doing it the right way .. Im amazed at how many people have just kissed goodbye a HUGE asset in the first round draft pick without really missing a beat. On balance, im ok with giving up the pick because Lowry is good and his contract is great .. but make no mistake .. giving up that pick was a HUGE HUGE asset to give up

      the protections are pretty good. if the moves don't help us as much as bc thinks and we still suck we keep the pick. and then if we do really well the pick is still ours. so it should be either late lottery or just after lottery. which isn't such a strong placing anyway. technically even if we just barely get in the lottery and win 1st 2nd or 3rd this pick is still ours.

      it was a good trade for us.

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      • #78
        mountio wrote: View Post
        ...for sure, Lowry is a better option (even taking into account that we only have him for two years).
        .. but make no mistake .. giving up that pick was a HUGE HUGE asset to give up
        Raptors fans just kill me.

        "If you don't do it, you're a fool. If you do do it, you're stupid."

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        • #79
          agreed to some extent .. although for young rebuilding teams, all draft picks are helpful. And if the pick was top 7 or top 5 protected Id be much less fussed .. but the thought of potentially losing a top 5 pick makes me sick (despite how relatively remote the chances might be)

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          • #80
            Miekenstien wrote: View Post
            the protections are pretty good. if the moves don't help us as much as bc thinks and we still suck we keep the pick. and then if we do really well the pick is still ours. so it should be either late lottery or just after lottery. which isn't such a strong placing anyway. technically even if we just barely get in the lottery and win 1st 2nd or 3rd this pick is still ours.

            it was a good trade for us.
            Not saying it wasnt a good trade .. just noting that I flipped through dozens of comments comparing the Nash move to the Lowry move and not one mention of the draft pick. The two options can not be compared against eachother without taking the pick into account.
            And, as to the protections .. I would say they are ok at best. Top 7 or top 5 projected would be much, much better. There are a number of scenarios (whether they be injury, ping pong ball or trade related) where we could end up with a top 5 or top 7 type pick and lose it. I wouldnt say they are likely .. but certainly possible.

            Anyways .. not being a total pessimist here, just saying we shouldnt sweep the pick under the rug like its nothing ..

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            • #81
              Puffer wrote: View Post
              Raptors fans just kill me.

              "If you don't do it, you're a fool. If you do do it, you're stupid."
              See above .. not a BC killer at all. Think its a good trade .. just think you have to take the draft pick into account when comparing nash to lowry (which is a big part of why I supported nash deal .. didnt cost us any young talent).

              I think its funny that one of the big hacks on the nash trade was that it was somehow going to kill our future by making us pick 5-10 slots higher than we might have without him .. yet when talking lowry, the thought of not having a pick at all next year seems to somehow get overlooked ..

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              • #82
                mountio wrote: View Post
                See above .. not a BC killer at all. Think its a good trade .. just think you have to take the draft pick into account when comparing nash to lowry (which is a big part of why I supported nash deal .. didnt cost us any young talent).

                I think its funny that one of the big hacks on the nash trade was that it was somehow going to kill our future by making us pick 5-10 slots higher than we might have without him .. yet when talking lowry, the thought of not having a pick at all next year seems to somehow get overlooked ..
                Next years draft is weaker. We already have an abundance of youth already. This is a better team then we have had in a while and the chances of us losing a top 5 pick is slim (and our team will probably be even better if BC does another couple moves).

                I actually think it was smart of BC to give up next years pick rather then our 8th pick on the night of the draft. Wasn't that the trade idea? Our 8th pick and a player for Lowry and one of their picks? We got a far better deal then that IMO.

                I think this trade strongly favours the Raptors (Raptor and Rocket fans agree that the Rockets got fleeced) and the pick is not something to lose sleep about.

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                • #83
                  Red and White wrote: View Post
                  Next years draft is weaker. We already have an abundance of youth already. This is a better team then we have had in a while and the chances of us losing a top 5 pick is slim (and our team will probably be even better if BC does another couple moves).

                  I actually think it was smart of BC to give up next years pick rather then our 8th pick on the night of the draft. Wasn't that the trade idea? Our 8th pick and a player for Lowry and one of their picks? We got a far better deal then that IMO.

                  I think this trade strongly favours the Raptors (Raptor and Rocket fans agree that the Rockets got fleeced) and the pick is not something to lose sleep about.
                  A skeptic might say the draft day deal was to give Houston our 8 pick and take their 12 (which still could have got us T Ross + Lowry and kept next years pick) .. but Im not sure that would have been enough to pry Lowry away ...

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                  • #84
                    mountio wrote: View Post
                    A skeptic might say the draft day deal was to give Houston our 8 pick and take their 12 (which still could have got us T Ross + Lowry and kept next years pick) .. but Im not sure that would have been enough to pry Lowry away ...
                    Can't remember where in this forum I read it but BC had reason to believe that Ross wouldn't be there at 12. The Raptors staff had the analytic's on Ross telling him he was the best pick available at the 8 spot.

                    Let's please stop going on about "the Raptors could have got him by trading down."

                    Reasons to shut up about "the Raptors could have got him by trading down."
                    1. Their analysis showed him as the best available player
                    2. They had reason to believe he wouldn't be there below 11
                    3. BC tried to trade down and up but had no takers who didn't want more than he was willing to give up (Bargs or JV?)
                    4. The Raptors staff of full-time professional talent analysts think they know better than Raptors fans on fan forums, so won't be taking your advice.

                    So can we leave it alone now? Please?

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                    • #85
                      mountio wrote: View Post
                      A skeptic might say the draft day deal was to give Houston our 8 pick and take their 12 (which still could have got us T Ross + Lowry and kept next years pick) .. but Im not sure that would have been enough to pry Lowry away ...
                      I realize you aren't the one complaining about not trading the pick for a lower one, since you admit that the pick might not have "...been enough to pry Lowry away ..." so my little whine wasn't targeted at you. Your reference to skeptics just reminded me how tired I was of the whole thing.

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                      • #86
                        mountio wrote: View Post
                        See above .. not a BC killer at all. Think its a good trade .. just think you have to take the draft pick into account when comparing nash to lowry (which is a big part of why I supported nash deal .. didnt cost us any young talent).

                        I think its funny that one of the big hacks on the nash trade was that it was somehow going to kill our future by making us pick 5-10 slots higher than we might have without him .. yet when talking lowry, the thought of not having a pick at all next year seems to somehow get overlooked ..
                        If we had signed Nash, in 3 years time, when Nash is retired, a 2013 lotto pick would've been nice (but out of reach thanks to Nash's immediate impact in the Win column).

                        In other words, we lose Nash and likely miss out on the lottery.

                        But in Lowry's case, he'll still be here in 3 years time (assuming he's extended), and will likely be one of the team's biggest contributors. In this scenario, the lack of a 2013 pick is a much easier pill to swallow compared to the Nash scenario above.

                        In other words, we still have Lowry, but lose a pick.
                        Last edited by Nilanka; Sat Jul 7, 2012, 10:43 AM.

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                        • #87
                          Remember we owe memphis a 2nd round pick in 2016... Also in 2013 Boston has 3, Bobcats has 3, Minnisota has 4, cleavland has 5, Denver and lakers both have 3 and most are lottery protected also... PLUS with our luck we would win the 2013 draft because it pretty weak....and the prize would be Shabazz Muhammad and he is compared to be a James Harden/MKG

                          http://nbadraft.net/players/shabazz-muhammad

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                          • #88
                            It's also possible that Colangelo acquires another pick in any subsequent transaction this summer, or prior to the trade deadline.

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                            • #89
                              thead wrote: View Post
                              my heart says plan A was better

                              my head says plan B was much better
                              IMO you summed it up for most people.

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                              • #90
                                Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                                only downside i see to this compared to nash is if lowry leaves after 2 years. otherwise i also like it more than the nash for 3
                                You really think Nash & his back at 38 would have lasted more than 2 years in cold Toronto (as opposed to dry Arizona or even LA)?
                                I truly hope Nash wins 1 or 2 titles with LA.
                                As to what happens with Lowry in 2 years? Will see. If we get 2 solid years out of him -call it a good trade.
                                Lets enjoy this team. Even as it is (I believe BC is not done) this team should be a lot more enjoyable (and competitive) than last year's.
                                I especially like the flexibility of this team due to fact that a lot of players can play more than 1 position. We appear to have 2 (sometimes 3) solid (solid or good, not great) players at every position. Packaging 2 or 3 of those guys for an upgrade (WITHOUT a huge salary -Eg R Gay...) might be a way to get much better.
                                Last but not least: this team is very young. Outside of Jose (who I'd like to keep beyond this year, perhaps at a smaller salary) NONE of the other player have peaked yet. If we assume that NBA players peak at 26-29, even if half of our guys make improvement -this team could be very solid for years to come.
                                I am looking forward NOW (not in 3-4 years as we faced last 2 years).

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