Your 2012/2013 Toronto Raptors

[NoBan]

I really find it strange those people that think Bosh leaving constitutes a fresh slate for BC. Or that Bosh's departure should be some type of excuse for the losing that followed.

He completely botched the Bosh situation and thus set us back 2 or 3 seasons. It's a black mark on this tenure, not a reason for patience.

[Craiger]

I really find it strange those people that think Bosh leaving constitutes a fresh slate for BC. Or that Bosh's departure should be some type of excuse for the losing that followed.

He completely botched the Bosh situation and thus set us back 2 or 3 seasons. It's a black mark on this tenure, not a reason for patience.

Completely agree.

Colangelo placed a bet and lost. It shouldn't be looked at as bad luck or some uncontrollable random event. He knew what the risk was.

[tenforthewin]

With John Lucas III near signing with us, we have pretty much find a 3rd stringer in every position except the 3rd stringer SF. So who's left (Brian Cardinal, Brian Cook, Marquis Daniels, Carlos Defino, Donta Greene, Josh Howard, Damion James, Bill Walker, Chris Wright). Personally I would give Defino, Howard, Greene, and Walker a chance with the Raptors at the 3 spot.

Lowry/Calderon/Lucas III
DeRozan/Ross/Anderson
Fields/Kleiza/FA
Bargs/Davis/Acy
Val/Amir/Gray/Magloire

That's 17 players, a deep bench.

[SuperRaptor]

Subtle Improvements can make big differences

I think people are overlooking the effect that subtle improvements or tweaks can have in a line up.

Just imagine if the team that we had last year had a healthy Andrea Bargnani for the whole year.

Now imagine if our defense at the point of attack (PG position arguably most important position to defend in todays NBA) was being locked down by one of the top 5 defensive point guards in the league.

What if instead of giving all of those minutes to Rasual Butler last year and watching him miss all those attempted three's we had Landry Fields playing at that position making more three's and defending better?

How about if Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, and Demar Derozan were bigger, stronger, smarter, and more skilled last year?

Now think of the impact of young 7'0 shot blocking, and rebounding Center with an unbelievable motor being injected into that line up will have.

You add that all up along with a full training camp, and many players that are comfortable with Dwayne Casey's system and what do you have?

A first round elimination in the playoffs. Objective achieved.

Raptors are stacked.

[wallz]

I think people are overlooking the effect that subtle improvements or tweaks can have in a line up.

Just imagine if the team that we had last year had a healthy Andrea Bargnani for the whole year.

Now imagine if our defense at the point of attack (PG position arguably most important position to defend in todays NBA) was being locked down by one of the top 5 defensive point guards in the league.

What if instead of giving all of those minutes to Rasual Butler last year and watching him miss all those attempted three's we had Landry Fields playing at that position making more three's and defending better?

How about if Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, and Demar Derozan were bigger, stronger, smarter, and more skilled last year?

Now think of the impact of young 7'0 shot blocking, and rebounding Center with an unbelievable motor being injected into that line up will have.

You add that all up along with a full training camp, and many players that are comfortable with Dwayne Casey's system and what do you have?

A first round elimination in the playoffs. Objective achieved.

Raptors are stacked.

+1

[Craiger]

I think people are overlooking the effect that subtle improvements or tweaks can have in a line up.

Just imagine if the team that we had last year had a healthy Andrea Bargnani for the whole year.

Now imagine if our defense at the point of attack (PG position arguably most important position to defend in todays NBA) was being locked down by one of the top 5 defensive point guards in the league.

What if instead of giving all of those minutes to Rasual Butler last year and watching him miss all those attempted three's we had Landry Fields playing at that position making more three's and defending better?

How about if Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, and Demar Derozan were bigger, stronger, smarter, and more skilled last year?

Now think of the impact of young 7'0 shot blocking, and rebounding Center with an unbelievable motor being injected into that line up will have.

You add that all up along with a full training camp, and many players that are comfortable with Dwayne Casey's system and what do you have?

A first round elimination in the playoffs. Objective achieved.

Raptors are stacked.

wonderful peice

[mcHAPPY]

I really find it strange those people that think Bosh leaving constitutes a fresh slate for BC. Or that Bosh's departure should be some type of excuse for the losing that followed.

He completely botched the Bosh situation and thus set us back 2 or 3 seasons. It's a black mark on this tenure, not a reason for patience.

Very old argument with two valid arguments.

The reality is what Bosh did and said were two totally different things. I would have loved to read reactions of a raptor trade of a perrenial all-star and est player with Raps sitting in playoffs. But again old argument.

Utah and Denver reaped the rewards of Cleveland and Toronto's experience. Luckily Raptors are putting it together just two years after departure. I honestly do not see them in a better situation had he stayed compared to now.

[Top5Pick]

Finally excited for a Raptors season wether they make playoffs or not ! im pumped to see them especially our new franchise player JV !!! he hasnt done anything in this league yet but his talent and skill cannot be passed up !! Also since Canada wont be in the Olympics GO LITHUANIA GO !!

[Craiger]

Very old argument with two valid arguments.

The reality is what Bosh did and said were two totally different things. I would have loved to read reactions of a raptor trade of a perrenial all-star and est player with Raps sitting in playoffs. But again old argument.

Utah and Denver reaped the rewards of Cleveland and Toronto's experience. Luckily Raptors are putting it together just two years after departure. I honestly do not see them in a better situation had he stayed compared to now.

The age of the argument doesn't change its validity.

I imagine that any Raptor fan that was upset (or would have been mad) at the idea of trading Bosh is eating a bowl full of crow right about now

[mcHAPPY]

The age of the argument doesn't change its validity.

I imagine that any Raptor fan that was upset (or would have been mad) at the idea of trading Bosh is eating a bowl full of crow right about now

With that train of thought anyone who bet/forecast an outcome to an event and was wrong is an idiot.

We can all sit here and make smart remarks and valid points with the benefit of hindsight.

[Bendit]

The hand wringing...the sky is falling sentiment as well as the resurrection of the "dump BC" mantra is palpable in the thread. And it's only been approx. 7 days since the F/A fest began.

While I am not doing cartwheels with the scope of the acquisitions todate (since I as well felt that this off season upto the trade deadline was going to be most important in the sustainable development of the team) I am aware that there is much time to go with significant opportunity especially at the trade deadline if BC keeps his powder dry in terms of maintaining cap flexibility for at least 1 major acquisition.

As someone else said, I look forward to watching how Casey molds this team (Bargs and DD included). Even the naysayers grudgingly seem to admit that there has been roster improvement but the disagreement seems to lie in not accepting a glass half full viewpoint on the growth possibilities of this team because of some of BC's failures of the past. We have to admit that he has recently realized (two years ago) that "defense" had to be the central focus/makeup of the team going forward. Every move he has made since has been to this end.

It's a fine line in the NBA with even admired gm's like Morey spinning his wheels the last few years and now doing the high wire act. Are we all prepared to suddenly think differently of him if his moves fall flat (getting in on the Howard deal)? I know I wouldn't. Re BC, my own posture is that he has this coming season entirely to show clearly that most knowledgeable fans are confident that there is an upward trajectory. I shall be changing my colours if this team's acquisitions show to be mistakes.

[slaw]

The age of the argument doesn't change its validity.

I imagine that any Raptor fan that was upset (or would have been mad) at the idea of trading Bosh is eating a bowl full of crow right about now

See, I don't, and never have, faulted Colangelo for not dealing Bosh. Bosh was a really good player who accomplished more here than any other player other than VC. I fault BC for all the disastrous moves he made around Bosh. Bosh was never the problem, management was.

[mcHAPPY]

See, I don't, and never have, faulted Colangelo for not dealing Bosh. Bosh was a really good player who accomplished more here than any other player other than VC. I fault BC for all the disastrous moves he made around Bosh. Bosh was never the problem, management was.

Good point. Despite efforts, all moves made around Bosh failed miserably.

[mcHAPPY]

The hand wringing...the sky is falling sentiment as well as the resurrection of the "dump BC" mantra is palpable in the thread. And it's only been approx. 7 days since the F/A fest began.

While I am not doing cartwheels with the scope of the acquisitions todate (since I as well felt that this off season upto the trade deadline was going to be most important in the sustainable development of the team) I am aware that there is much time to go with significant opportunity especially at the trade deadline if BC keeps his powder dry in terms of maintaining cap flexibility for at least 1 major acquisition.

As someone else said, I look forward to watching how Casey molds this team (Bargs and DD included). Even the naysayers grudgingly seem to admit that there has been roster improvement but the disagreement seems to lie in not accepting a glass half full viewpoint on the growth possibilities of this team because of some of BC's failures of the past. We have to admit that he has recently realized (two years ago) that "defense" had to be the central focus/makeup of the team going forward. Every move he has made since has been to this end.

It's a fine line in the NBA with even admired gm's like Morey spinning his wheels the last few years and now doing the high wire act. Are we all prepared to suddenly think differently of him if his moves fall flat (getting in on the Howard deal)? I know I wouldn't. Re BC, my own posture is that he has this coming season entirely to show clearly that most knowledgeable fans are confident that there is an upward trajectory. I shall be changing my colours if this team's acquisitions show to be mistakes.

Nice post, bendit.

I hope to see BC's option picked up for 2013-14 and if real improvement is not shown (ie playoff runs) then it is time to say good bye.

[Craiger]

With that train of thought anyone who bet/forecast an outcome to an event and was wrong is an idiot.

We can all sit here and make smart remarks and valid points with the benefit of hindsight.

Are you able to make an argument that has to do with Colangelo without building a straw man?

Taking a bet and losing or being wrong doesn't make you an idiot. What you risk, what you bet on and what the odds are would define the idiocy. But none of that changes that in the end he lost the bet.

Talk hindsight all you like. There were no shortage of fans, media etc who thought he was walking.

And none of that changes that those 'reactionary fans' you talk about would still be eating crow right now