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Being realistic....Players I Want on the Raptors in 2012-13

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  • #16
    Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    ...our offense has improved with the additions of Lowry, Ross and JV.
    [...]
    Scoring won't be a problem.
    Yeah, I'm not convinced.

    JV: I watched lietuvos rytas games this season, and although JV is an NBA-level finisher, defender, and rebounder, he has no offensive game of his own. He's not an offensive liability like a Biyombo or a Thabeet because of his ability to catch and finish, but his offensive game is significantly worse than, say, Amir's. I'd peg him as a little better than Ed Davis right now on offense.

    Lowry: Yeah, he's a bull on D. But he's certainly not going to be an offensive improvement over Jose, one of the most efficient offensive PGs in the league.

    Ross: I'll wait and see. I think he'll be decent, and that will help some because DD is terrible, but I don't see him being the game-changer that makes us an offensive juggernaut.

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    • #17
      tkfu wrote: View Post
      Yeah, I'm not convinced.

      JV: I watched lietuvos rytas games this season, and although JV is an NBA-level finisher, defender, and rebounder, he has no offensive game of his own. He's not an offensive liability like a Biyombo or a Thabeet because of his ability to catch and finish, but his offensive game is significantly worse than, say, Amir's. I'd peg him as a little better than Ed Davis right now on offense.

      Lowry: Yeah, he's a bull on D. But he's certainly not going to be an offensive improvement over Jose, one of the most efficient offensive PGs in the league.

      Ross: I'll wait and see. I think he'll be decent, and that will help some because DD is terrible, but I don't see him being the game-changer that makes us an offensive juggernaut.

      JV from 2010-11 to 2011-12 was a big difference. He is working on his post game. It is not a finished product but it is not garbage either. He is a guy who has routinely put up 12 points on just 5 shots.

      Lowry has a much better PER than Jose. Jose is much better on assist to turnover no doubt. Lowry's defence should help lead to easier buckets as well.

      Not expecting much from Ross either but the comments about his defensive tenacity are great to hear. Good D leads to easy O. Beyond his rookie year though, he is likely to be at least on par with DeRozan, in my opinion.

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      • #18
        3rd string shooting guard E'Twaun Moore?

        Going to be released it appears as part of Courtney Lee sign and trade.

        Low-risk pick up.

        Minimum contract.

        Good college career.

        -E'Twaun Moore grades out well statistically, as his 1.0 PPP overall ranks fourth of all wings, and he's doing it on an impressive 17.6 possessions per game. Moore is the most sure-handed of all wings, as his 9.2% TO% is easily best in the class, especially for someone using that many possessions.

        Moore is excellent in the pick-and-roll, where his 0.97 PPP ranks second overall. Moore's 7.7 jump shots per game are third most in the class, though his 1.0 PPS on them ranks just eighth. He makes a solid 40% of his 3.8 catch and shoot jumpers per game (4th), and 38% of his pull-ups (4th).

        There's a case to be made that Moore is one of the most underrated players in this draft class, and his showing in this sampling does nothing to discourage that notion.

        From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz21BJtbVCp
        http://www.draftexpress.com

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        • #19
          Not sure everybody read the "being realistic" portion of the thread title.

          Being realistic, the only assets we have as trade chips are Jose, Demar, Amir and Big Ed. That's not getting a deal for the likes of Gay, Iggy, Granger, etc done.

          Realistically, Jose is the only bullet we have left to fire and we'll probably get something similar to what Barbosa brought in last year (ie: nothing).

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          • #20
            NoBan wrote: View Post
            Not sure everybody read the "being realistic" portion of the thread title.

            Being realistic, the only assets we have as trade chips are Jose, Demar, Amir and Big Ed. That's not getting a deal for the likes of Gay, Iggy, Granger, etc done.

            Realistically, Jose is the only bullet we have left to fire and we'll probably get something similar to what Barbosa brought in last year (ie: nothing).
            If we continue to be cap savvy, then despite the fact that our assets are weak, what we can do is provide cap relief to some of those teams (especially Memphis). We can possibly take on Gay's salary without having to give back much. Plus some of our assets, even though they are weak can fill a big whole for a team like Memphis. They need a backup SG (DeMar to replace Mayo), and a backup big (Amir or Ed). Plus we could package multiple 2nd rounders, or work in a 1st rounder that doesn't interfere with the Lowry trade.

            What we will have a hard time including though would be a pick because of that Lowry deal. However we already gained an additional 2nd rounder next year and could maybe make a move somewhere else to get more assets.

            But some teams may want our poo poo platter of young assets with potential for their stud just so they can avoid luxury tax and/or start fresh (like Orlando with Howard, or Atlanta with Johnson).

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            • #21
              Matt52 wrote: View Post
              JV from 2010-11 to 2011-12 was a big difference. He is working on his post game. It is not a finished product but it is not garbage either. He is a guy who has routinely put up 12 points on just 5 shots.

              Lowry has a much better PER than Jose. Jose is much better on assist to turnover no doubt. Lowry's defence should help lead to easier buckets as well.

              Not expecting much from Ross either but the comments about his defensive tenacity are great to hear. Good D leads to easy O. Beyond his rookie year though, he is likely to be at least on par with DeRozan, in my opinion.
              I also assume Bargnani will be playing more than 31 games next season (I hope). That right there should give us a big offensive boost, if Lowry/Fields/JV/Ross does not.

              Comment


              • #22
                planetmars wrote: View Post
                I also assume Bargnani will be playing more than 31 games next season (I hope). That right there should give us a big offensive boost, if Lowry/Fields/JV/Ross does not.
                Very good point.

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                • #23
                  Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  3rd string shooting guard E'Twaun Moore?

                  Going to be released it appears as part of Courtney Lee sign and trade.

                  Low-risk pick up.

                  Minimum contract.

                  Good college career.
                  I was thinking the same thing. I remember watching a few Boston games where he got minutes and he actually produced at a high level. Id like it if we got him as a 3rd string sg.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    planetmars wrote: View Post
                    If we continue to be cap savvy, then despite the fact that our assets are weak, what we can do is provide cap relief to some of those teams (especially Memphis). We can possibly take on Gay's salary without having to give back much. Plus some of our assets, even though they are weak can fill a big whole for a team like Memphis. They need a backup SG (DeMar to replace Mayo), and a backup big (Amir or Ed). Plus we could package multiple 2nd rounders, or work in a 1st rounder that doesn't interfere with the Lowry trade.

                    What we will have a hard time including though would be a pick because of that Lowry deal. However we already gained an additional 2nd rounder next year and could maybe make a move somewhere else to get more assets.

                    But some teams may want our poo poo platter of young assets with potential for their stud just so they can avoid luxury tax and/or start fresh (like Orlando with Howard, or Atlanta with Johnson).
                    Point taken, but I think youre justifying a trade based on desire to get Gay to the Raps.

                    Your arguments are well articulated, but I don't think Memphis moves a bona-fide talent in Gay for the ho-hum guys on our roster. Yes, the pieces fit, but the talent is just not enough to justify the move.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      planetmars wrote: View Post
                      If we continue to be cap savvy, then despite the fact that our assets are weak, what we can do is provide cap relief to some of those teams (especially Memphis). We can possibly take on Gay's salary without having to give back much. Plus some of our assets, even though they are weak can fill a big whole for a team like Memphis. They need a backup SG (DeMar to replace Mayo), and a backup big (Amir or Ed). Plus we could package multiple 2nd rounders, or work in a 1st rounder that doesn't interfere with the Lowry trade.

                      What we will have a hard time including though would be a pick because of that Lowry deal. However we already gained an additional 2nd rounder next year and could maybe make a move somewhere else to get more assets.

                      But some teams may want our poo poo platter of young assets with potential for their stud just so they can avoid luxury tax and/or start fresh (like Orlando with Howard, or Atlanta with Johnson).
                      I absolutely agree. Perhaps Calderon & 2nd round pick (or 2 2nd round picks) would be enough to entice a team to give a 1st round pick back in return, if they are only offering a 2nd round pick now, for example. The cap space & 1st round pick could then help facilitate a trade for a stud SF, along with other good assets (ie: Amir/Davis/DeRozan).

                      You can't just look at this roster/assets and assume it's a 1-step process to acquire a star talent. A good GM has to be able to look several trades ahead (also why it's good not just judge any trade in a vacuum) and/or find a 3rd or even 4th team to bring into a potential deal, to ensure that assets line-up and fit the needs of each team.

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                      • #26
                        NoBan wrote: View Post
                        Point taken, but I think youre justifying a trade based on desire to get Gay to the Raps.

                        Your arguments are well articulated, but I don't think Memphis moves a bona-fide talent in Gay for the ho-hum guys on our roster. Yes, the pieces fit, but the talent is just not enough to justify the move.
                        I admit, I've been on the Gay band-wagon for a long time.. so there is a lot of bias in my posts.. however I don't think its that unrealistic to think a team that is fighting luxury tax would have an issue trading their over paid star for young assets, cap space and picks.

                        Again Joe Johnson was traded for Anthony Morrow, Jordan Farmar, DeShawn Stevenson, Jordan Williams, Johan Petro and a non lottery pick.

                        My point is that a star player could be traded for crap, if what they get in return is a cap space, a chance to get out of mediocrity, or to start fresh. Toronto could offer DeMar, Davis, Jose, and 2 2nd round picks. That looks like a pile of crap, but it's a better deal than what Atlanta got for Joe Johnson in my opinion. There are not a lot of teams that would be willing to take on Gay's salary.. and if Memphis does part with him it would be to get out of luxury tax, so they wouldn't want much salary back for him. To trade him for a star then would be difficult since most stars make a lot of money.

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                        • #27
                          Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                          Sorry I didn't really answer your question. I think SF remains our weakest position (until T. Ross gets strong enough to move to SF that is), so anyone better than L. Fields would be great. I like Granger for his leadership, Iggy for his defense and Gay for his scoring.
                          Iggy is definitely a realistic possibility. Gay is possible but more unlikely now that we have less to offer. I don't think Granger is a possibility at the moment to the Raptors.

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                          • #28
                            Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            I think Philly are in for a fall.

                            They have no one near Elton "Old Man" Brand's abilities on O or D among their current bigs.

                            Not sure Young will be able to do what Williams did.

                            Royal Ivey makes John Lucas III look like a first team all NBA.

                            Harkless is a talent no question but he is also a project.

                            Hopefully Doug Collins does what he has done in every other stop: wear on the players to the point of tuning out. Combine that with a downgrade in talent (my opinion!) and AI is shopped for real come December.
                            lol you forgot to mention that they expect to start Kwame Brown as their center :P

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                            • #29
                              NoBan wrote: View Post
                              Not sure everybody read the "being realistic" portion of the thread title.

                              Being realistic, the only assets we have as trade chips are Jose, Demar, Amir and Big Ed. That's not getting a deal for the likes of Gay, Iggy, Granger, etc done.

                              Realistically, Jose is the only bullet we have left to fire and we'll probably get something similar to what Barbosa brought in last year (ie: nothing).
                              Iggy is definite possibility! The rest you've listed, Gay and Granger, aren't.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I know this is waaaay off topic(feel free to move). But, it seems that a bunch of the raptors are/were in vegas for the summer league. Last i count (well, ed and t-ross are there for summer league) Lowry, Fields, Derozan, Amir(i think) were all there. Are they maybe building they're chemistry early? Hangin out? Havin a mini summer camp. Cuz, most of the guys there are pretty much the core players this season. I'm just sayin that, thats really cool if they are preppin for the seasons months before training camp.

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